D&D 5E Convince me that the Ranger is a necessary Class.

[Horwath]

And all three of them use/used Magic!

Drizzt had 5 out of 16 ranger levels in 3.5.
that gave him a grand total of ONE spell slot of 1st level.

Sure, you can call that using magic in theory.

 

[Remathilis]

IMO

1. Sorcerer has the least class identity. It's just a wizard with a different casting stat.
2. Ranger second least. Just a fighter with nature skills, maybe a druid dip.
3. Druid, could be a cleric
4. Barbarian (playtest) could be an angry fighter. Though the playtest learned into the natrual connection moved it up a few notch.
5. Paladin, just a cleric/fighter.
6. Fighter, flexible but pretty generic. Right in the middle.
7. Bard, has a theme that's kind of all over the place.
8. Rogue, anyone can take stealth and lockpicking.
9. Wizard, variety of spells
10. Monk (playtest), speedster. It's mechanical identity has improved a lot with the playtest.
11. Cleric, has good themes depending on your god.
12. Warlock, has a unique mechanics and fun story books.
13. Artificer. Combat craftsman is unique.

Reduction lists like this always remind me that the D&D class list is arbitrary and every class could be boiled down to "martial" and "caster" with enough reduction. You end up so close to a classless system you might as well make that last leap.

In the end, class identity is so purely subjective that there is no way to justify any class existing. Except tradition, I guess.

 

[Horwath]

Reduction lists like this always remind me that the D&D class list is arbitrary and every class could be boiled down to "martial" and "caster" with enough reduction. You end up so close to a classless system you might as well make that last leap.

In the end, class identity is so purely subjective that there is no way to justify any class existing. Except tradition, I guess.

d12 HD, full martial, no caster
d10 HD, 1/2 caster
d8 HD, 2/3rd caster
d6 HD, full caster

 

[Remathilis]

d12 HD, full martial, no caster
d10 HD, 1/2 caster
d8 HD, 2/3rd caster
d6 HD, full caster

Still subjective. The current classes don't adhere to this structure, and there is no such thing as a 2/3rd caster. You might as well assign a point cost to HD, weapon/armor use, spells and class features and just let people buy what they want within a budget that doesn't allow for all goodstuff.

Which is why any attempt to inject "logic" into D&D class structure is bound to fail. Fantasy heartbreakers are born and die around making D&D classes make sense. Classes are vibes more than logical entities and attempts to cram classes into neat boxes (be it fighter subclass, martial leader, or d12/no caster) all end up feeling more like a grid filling experiment than actual archetype fulfillment.

 

[Horwath]

Still subjective. The current classes don't adhere to this structure, and there is no such thing as a 2/3rd caster. You might as well assign a point cost to HD, weapon/armor use, spells and class features and just let people buy what they want within a budget that doesn't allow for all goodstuff.

that is the final version of classless D&D.

start with d6 HD, no armor, simple weapons, 2 skills and 2 saves and then buy with "feat slots" everything else.

Which is why any attempt to inject "logic" into D&D class structure is bound to fail. Fantasy heartbreakers are born and die around making D&D classes make sense. Classes are vibes more than logical entities and attempts to cram classes into neat boxes (be it fighter subclass, martial leader, or d12/no caster) all end up feeling more like a grid filling experiment than actual archetype fulfillment.

that is 100% true.

 

[Remathilis]

that is the final version of classless D&D.

start with d6 HD, no armor, simple weapons, 2 skills and 2 saves and then buy with "feat slots" everything else.

that is 100% true.

Ah that makes more sense.

 

[TwoSix]

that is the final version of classless D&D.

start with d6 HD, no armor, simple weapons, 2 skills and 2 saves and then buy with "feat slots" everything else.

I started them with d8 HD and light armor, but otherwise that's how I run classless.

 

[Horwath]

I started them with d8 HD and light armor, but otherwise that's how I run classless.

that takes two half-feats worth of spells from the character

 

[TwoSix]

that takes two half-feats worth of spells from the character

Well, it's my system, so it really can't take anything if I don't want it to.

 

[mellored]

Reduction lists like this always remind me that the D&D class list is arbitrary and every class could be boiled down to "martial" and "caster" with enough reduction. You end up so close to a classless system you might as well make that last leap.

In the end, class identity is so purely subjective that there is no way to justify any class existing. Except tradition, I guess.

Oh, it's very much an In My Opinion list.

But I expect if everyone made such a list, there would be a fair amount of overlap.