Horwath
Legend
again 3 of those are write and forget. it's 1 minute work and done.
only thing is Spellcasting+Favored enemy, one feature with 4 spells.
by that, fighter has the most at 1st level, yet it's the simplest class.
D&D 5E (2014) Convince me that the Ranger is a necessary Class.
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only thing is Spellcasting+Favored enemy, one feature with 4 spells.
by that, fighter has the most at 1st level, yet it's the simplest class.
MoonSong
Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
I was isekai'd to a fantasy world and all I brought with me was a camera.
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The issue is you are still writing 2 feats that refer the the Spellcasting system and one to the Weapon Mastery system.
All which have scale up.
I mean. There is a reason why no one printed it and made millions.
There's no way to Feat-ize D&D's NeoVancian Spell slot system without angering 50% the fanbase like 4e did.
MoonSong
Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
And then sorcerers had to pay for everybody's sins.
Horwath
Legend
this is true, some middle ground should have been struck here.
every subclass starts at 1st level but it gets minor features, but that helps define the class.
Dragon sorcerer can be 1st level without any problem.
Battlemaster could get only 2 dice(d6) and 2 maneuvers at 1st level.
Scout rogue can get skill proficiency at 1st level and then expertise and reaction movement at 3rd level
Gloomstalker can get darkvision and bonus spells at 1st level and Dread ambusher at 3rd level.
simplified: proficiencies(skills, tools, weapons, armor) and spells at 1st level
"stronger" features at 3rd level.
This sounds elegant, but I think you will run into problems in play. In most tables there are people who do not understand their PC abilities and they rely on the DM to frequently tell them how their character works. Grouping many of the options into a class makes this a lot easier on the DM.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I like Sorcerers waiting for their subclass. I never liked how each sorcerer immediately knows the source of their power. I’d much rather find out over time, and it’s better for new players to be able to choose after a few sessions playing the character.
James Gasik
We don't talk about Pun-Pun
On the other hand, when a subclass requires you to make choices to best utilize it before you get it, that's at least somewhat problematic. For example, let's say you're destined to become a dragon sorcerer. You better not take Mage Armor for the first two levels, because you're going to get natural armor! Oh and also, you need to focus on certain types of damage because you're eventually going to get bonus damage! And you have to avoid taking any spell that you'll get from your subclass, which in the case of the Sorcerer, means Alter Self, Chromatic Orb, Command, and Dragon's Breath.
I remember having a similar problem in Pathfinder 1e, where I couldn't take Burning Hands, despite having bonuses for using it, because I was going to get it for free at level 3.
And sure, yeah, you can swap out spells at level up in 5e, but you can only do one at a time, and it's still just unnecessary.
Is this as bad as waiting to find out at level 3 that you can wear heavy armor like in 2014? I don't know, but it feels like if your subclass is going to be transformative in any way, they should come in as soon as possible.
It also kind of feels a bit nonsensical that you get several features at once at level 3 out of the blue. What should be happening is that you should be getting these gradually. Like, why can't you get 1 thing at each of levels 1-3, to show you slowly becoming a "true" member of your subclass?
I feel like that would be more logical, but YMMV.
I remember having a similar problem in Pathfinder 1e, where I couldn't take Burning Hands, despite having bonuses for using it, because I was going to get it for free at level 3.
And sure, yeah, you can swap out spells at level up in 5e, but you can only do one at a time, and it's still just unnecessary.
Is this as bad as waiting to find out at level 3 that you can wear heavy armor like in 2014? I don't know, but it feels like if your subclass is going to be transformative in any way, they should come in as soon as possible.
It also kind of feels a bit nonsensical that you get several features at once at level 3 out of the blue. What should be happening is that you should be getting these gradually. Like, why can't you get 1 thing at each of levels 1-3, to show you slowly becoming a "true" member of your subclass?
I feel like that would be more logical, but YMMV.
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
One thing I find genuinely hilarious about this is that FFXIV has precisely the opposite problem.
It doesn't have a "Ranger" class. (Or, rather, "job"; Final Fantasy treats "classes" as lower-tier things you usually graduate out of, and "jobs" are the true equivalent of a D&D class). This leaves a number of fans REALLY upset.
See, FFXIV ties the job you play to the weapon you wield. This makes for a nice clean thematic expression for each job--but it also means that, because the "Bard" job uses bows, there's...really no room for a "Ranger" class anymore, as bows were also the Ranger thing. Bards being archers has this whole cultural explanation within the world of FFXIV (TL;DR: they're sort of a blend of battlefield pseudo-medic, inspiring presence, and death-from-afar/longbowman-type units), but this now means that, because of the 1:1 correspondence between a specific weapon type and a specific job, if we ever get a "Ranger" it's going to have to use something other than a longbow-type weapon.
This leaves many fans frustrated, because in their heads, a "Ranger" cannot be strongly associated with music, performance, or the inspirational/party-buffing elements of the Bard. It needs to be a rugged outdoorsman, a hunter-of-beasts; if it has any association with healing at all, it should only be in a poultices-and-bandages kind of way, not "Music has charms to soothe a savage breast". Meaning, these people very much believe Ranger IS a "necessary [job]" and have articulated many reasons why it irritates them that they have to settle for something merely adjacent, something that comes bundled with a bunch of mechanics and thematics they don't like.
It doesn't have a "Ranger" class. (Or, rather, "job"; Final Fantasy treats "classes" as lower-tier things you usually graduate out of, and "jobs" are the true equivalent of a D&D class). This leaves a number of fans REALLY upset.
See, FFXIV ties the job you play to the weapon you wield. This makes for a nice clean thematic expression for each job--but it also means that, because the "Bard" job uses bows, there's...really no room for a "Ranger" class anymore, as bows were also the Ranger thing. Bards being archers has this whole cultural explanation within the world of FFXIV (TL;DR: they're sort of a blend of battlefield pseudo-medic, inspiring presence, and death-from-afar/longbowman-type units), but this now means that, because of the 1:1 correspondence between a specific weapon type and a specific job, if we ever get a "Ranger" it's going to have to use something other than a longbow-type weapon.
This leaves many fans frustrated, because in their heads, a "Ranger" cannot be strongly associated with music, performance, or the inspirational/party-buffing elements of the Bard. It needs to be a rugged outdoorsman, a hunter-of-beasts; if it has any association with healing at all, it should only be in a poultices-and-bandages kind of way, not "Music has charms to soothe a savage breast". Meaning, these people very much believe Ranger IS a "necessary [job]" and have articulated many reasons why it irritates them that they have to settle for something merely adjacent, something that comes bundled with a bunch of mechanics and thematics they don't like.
