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Cooperative Dungeon IV: Update
- Thread starter Trainz
- Start date
Trainz
Explorer
Done.Conaill said:How about door icon, since that's just a nondescript little box anyway? Seems about the right size as well: 4ft by 2ft or somesuch.
Thanks for putting up with the nitpicking!
And you will also note that the resolution is much better, I redid the image and room numbering. I had to, it was starting to degrade too much (my compression factor was to high, I set it at the lowest compression factor now... noob).
Looks nice, thanks!
Any update on how far along CD3 is? We occasionally hear comments like "so-and-so is doing editing", but I would love to hear some more behind-the-scenes details (considering that this is the closest many of us have gotten to publishing anything). What section is so-and-so editing? What kind of trouble did they run into? Any issues that could be resolved with some more community input? etc...
Inquiring minds want to know...
Any update on how far along CD3 is? We occasionally hear comments like "so-and-so is doing editing", but I would love to hear some more behind-the-scenes details (considering that this is the closest many of us have gotten to publishing anything). What section is so-and-so editing? What kind of trouble did they run into? Any issues that could be resolved with some more community input? etc...
Inquiring minds want to know...
Mark
CreativeMountainGames.com
I'm thinking, and others will correct me if I am mis-speaking, that the best thing for those on the front end (contributors) to do is to continue to refine the process here that is taking place and to then move on to CD-05 and further refine it. It's amazing to me just how far it has come in so short a time.
As far as the back end (Yes. I guess I'm indirectly calling myself an ass...
) is concerned, we're all taking a page from the front end folks and doing things more collaboratively during the editing process. Stats are getting more input and being banged out with a collective hammer and anvil, and the overall editing is getting a further hypodermic in the form of greater depth to the plot hooks and backstory. I think CD-03 will show even greater improvements than the ones seen from CD-01 to CD-02.
If I had to put a general target date on CD-03's arrival, I'd guess mid-July...maybe a little bit later. I think the final phases of CD-04 will take less time due to the phenomenal work being done on the front end.
Hope that answers the question fairly well, and thanks to everyone who have allowed me the privilege of being the company publishing these wonderful products. I'm loving it!
As far as the back end (Yes. I guess I'm indirectly calling myself an ass...
) is concerned, we're all taking a page from the front end folks and doing things more collaboratively during the editing process. Stats are getting more input and being banged out with a collective hammer and anvil, and the overall editing is getting a further hypodermic in the form of greater depth to the plot hooks and backstory. I think CD-03 will show even greater improvements than the ones seen from CD-01 to CD-02.If I had to put a general target date on CD-03's arrival, I'd guess mid-July...maybe a little bit later. I think the final phases of CD-04 will take less time due to the phenomenal work being done on the front end.
Hope that answers the question fairly well, and thanks to everyone who have allowed me the privilege of being the company publishing these wonderful products. I'm loving it!
Thanks for the speedy answer, Mark!
Since you're talking about banging on stats and adding backstory... I was wondering how much you guys wind up changing the original submissions. Or do you essentially only fill in missing pieces (e.g. missing spells prepared for a spellcaster NPC, etc.)? If you do make any changes that might be considered substantive, do you ever try to contact the original author to figure out what his intent was? And do the authors get a chance to proofread the final product before it's being released?
Not criticising the wonderful work you guys are doing, just curious. CD-03 was the first one I participated in, so I have yet to see the full process start-to-finish...
Since you're talking about banging on stats and adding backstory... I was wondering how much you guys wind up changing the original submissions. Or do you essentially only fill in missing pieces (e.g. missing spells prepared for a spellcaster NPC, etc.)? If you do make any changes that might be considered substantive, do you ever try to contact the original author to figure out what his intent was? And do the authors get a chance to proofread the final product before it's being released?
Not criticising the wonderful work you guys are doing, just curious. CD-03 was the first one I participated in, so I have yet to see the full process start-to-finish...
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To go in a tiny bit more detail than Mark.
IT starts with Trainz creating a map and setting a theme/BBEG. This he takes suggestions for and such and uses his own inspiration.
He post it and everyone does their thing as you can see in the post.
Then we take it and drop it into a Word Doc and I begin the editing process covering things like compatibility between rooms. If room A mentions room C make sure what is said matches. I check formatting overall focusing on traps, doors and such. I also write the Plot hooks and synopsis.
I also make sure the basic grammar is correct to the best of my skill. Mainly making sure it makes sense to my thick head.
Meanwhile Trainz handles getting the art and making sure the map is ready.
I send it to Trainz who sends it to Merak And Creamsteak. Steak handles the NPC blocks and Merak handles the text editing in much finer detail.
It comes back to me then Trainz for final approval. When it passes through Trainz hands he also reads it over to double check behind the rest of us.
Then Trainz sends map, art and text to Mark who checks it yet again and insures everything is appropriate and legal. He does the final lay out and actually puts it up on the web.
The amazing thing to me is that we get such quality from contributions to end product for free.
But that's the short answer. There is a lot of E-mails and board talk between us on day to day decisions. Especially how heavy handed to be in editing. We , as a group, hate to alter a contribution but sometimes it has to be done to increase the cohesion of the whole. We try our best to minimize our impact on an individual entries.
The contributors have increased their input greatly and started to self edit which is allowing us to expand our contributions as the production team in adding more to the Dungeon. For example we are banding about expanding the Plot hooks to be more richly detailed. thanks to the contributors we have the time to devote to such endeavors.
Thanks again everyone.
Later
IT starts with Trainz creating a map and setting a theme/BBEG. This he takes suggestions for and such and uses his own inspiration.
He post it and everyone does their thing as you can see in the post.
Then we take it and drop it into a Word Doc and I begin the editing process covering things like compatibility between rooms. If room A mentions room C make sure what is said matches. I check formatting overall focusing on traps, doors and such. I also write the Plot hooks and synopsis.
I also make sure the basic grammar is correct to the best of my skill. Mainly making sure it makes sense to my thick head.
Meanwhile Trainz handles getting the art and making sure the map is ready.
I send it to Trainz who sends it to Merak And Creamsteak. Steak handles the NPC blocks and Merak handles the text editing in much finer detail.
It comes back to me then Trainz for final approval. When it passes through Trainz hands he also reads it over to double check behind the rest of us.
Then Trainz sends map, art and text to Mark who checks it yet again and insures everything is appropriate and legal. He does the final lay out and actually puts it up on the web.
The amazing thing to me is that we get such quality from contributions to end product for free.
But that's the short answer. There is a lot of E-mails and board talk between us on day to day decisions. Especially how heavy handed to be in editing. We , as a group, hate to alter a contribution but sometimes it has to be done to increase the cohesion of the whole. We try our best to minimize our impact on an individual entries.
The contributors have increased their input greatly and started to self edit which is allowing us to expand our contributions as the production team in adding more to the Dungeon. For example we are banding about expanding the Plot hooks to be more richly detailed. thanks to the contributors we have the time to devote to such endeavors.
Thanks again everyone.
Later
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Mark
CreativeMountainGames.com
I see that Shallown has already made many good points, and with a more detailed accounting than I have, but I'll just add...
We trust the back end team to maintain the spirit of the front end team's work, if any changes need to be made. Sending it back for another go-aroudn with all of the writers would be too time consuming and likely to get hung up as so many schedules would have to be accomodated to do it fully. Unless we wanted to put out no more than one a year (maybe two), we'd be hard pressed to do otherwise.
It's actually a lot more liberal in favor of the writers than a simple freelancer's work-for-hire in that the front end has plenty of time to work out the kinks, and the back end team is doing mostly clean up. Oddly enough, it's the clean up that really takes the most time. Or, perhaps, not so oddly when you consider how many DMs are chock full of ideas and how many ever get published. It's mostly the "busy work" that is done on the back end and the "creative work" (the fun stuff) that mostly gets done on the front end.
I think we might look toward bringing in a few more folks to the back end as time goes by so that we can speed up the process, but that's for Trainz to determine and will largely be decided on a case-by-case basis. You (Conaill) sound interested in getting behind the scenes but I have to warn you; It's a LOT more work, the work is a LOT more mundane, and the glory really goes to those who get the contributors credits, in the end. (Be careful what you wish for, because we might just ruin the whole experience for you by taking you up on it!)
(One caveat to the above by Shallown is that once I am done with the layout and legal work I send a copy back to Trainz for yet another final approval.)
We trust the back end team to maintain the spirit of the front end team's work, if any changes need to be made. Sending it back for another go-aroudn with all of the writers would be too time consuming and likely to get hung up as so many schedules would have to be accomodated to do it fully. Unless we wanted to put out no more than one a year (maybe two), we'd be hard pressed to do otherwise.
It's actually a lot more liberal in favor of the writers than a simple freelancer's work-for-hire in that the front end has plenty of time to work out the kinks, and the back end team is doing mostly clean up. Oddly enough, it's the clean up that really takes the most time. Or, perhaps, not so oddly when you consider how many DMs are chock full of ideas and how many ever get published. It's mostly the "busy work" that is done on the back end and the "creative work" (the fun stuff) that mostly gets done on the front end.
I think we might look toward bringing in a few more folks to the back end as time goes by so that we can speed up the process, but that's for Trainz to determine and will largely be decided on a case-by-case basis. You (Conaill) sound interested in getting behind the scenes but I have to warn you; It's a LOT more work, the work is a LOT more mundane, and the glory really goes to those who get the contributors credits, in the end. (Be careful what you wish for, because we might just ruin the whole experience for you by taking you up on it!)
(One caveat to the above by Shallown is that once I am done with the layout and legal work I send a copy back to Trainz for yet another final approval.)
Oh, trust me... I'm a LOT more interested in knowing what goes on behind the scenes than in doing the actual hard work!
I'm already spending way too much time on EN World. Committing another big chunk of time would be the last thing I need...For now, I'm happy to just tinker with stuff as and when I get time, and cheer you guys on from the sidelines...
Trainz
Explorer
The funny thing is, originally I never intended Cooperative Dungeons to be what it has become.
One day I was at my computer trying to create an adventure for my group's next game session. All I knew is that it had to be level 14 and I wanted to have demons in it. I hit a writer's block, and if I had proceeded at the time, I would have just created an "open the door-kill the critter" dungeon. Sometimes I admit I do that, but I hate it, and although my players still have fun killing critts, I strive for a better gaming experience.
And then it hit me.
I have access to this great ressource that is ENworld, so, hell, why not give it a shot. I post the darn thing with the map, and I think "even if only a few rooms get filled by the ENpeeps, at least I'm going to have a few rooms that will help me making the rest".
Next thing you know, the adventure is done, and I only did 3 rooms (out of about 30 ! ! !). Then these amazing guys want to help me collate and edit the thing. Speechless. And then Mark comes along and offers to distribute it under the Creative Mountain Game banner. Flat on my arse.
And then, ENworlders start asking "That was fun ! When's the next one ?"
THE NEXT ONE ?
So there you have it. It's a lot of work (a LOT more than I initially intended to put in), but what a great ride it is !
I said it before, but I'll say it again, it is a great honor for me to have so many people hop on my Crazy Trainz !
One day I was at my computer trying to create an adventure for my group's next game session. All I knew is that it had to be level 14 and I wanted to have demons in it. I hit a writer's block, and if I had proceeded at the time, I would have just created an "open the door-kill the critter" dungeon. Sometimes I admit I do that, but I hate it, and although my players still have fun killing critts, I strive for a better gaming experience.
And then it hit me.
I have access to this great ressource that is ENworld, so, hell, why not give it a shot. I post the darn thing with the map, and I think "even if only a few rooms get filled by the ENpeeps, at least I'm going to have a few rooms that will help me making the rest".
Next thing you know, the adventure is done, and I only did 3 rooms (out of about 30 ! ! !). Then these amazing guys want to help me collate and edit the thing. Speechless. And then Mark comes along and offers to distribute it under the Creative Mountain Game banner. Flat on my arse.
And then, ENworlders start asking "That was fun ! When's the next one ?"
THE NEXT ONE ?
So there you have it. It's a lot of work (a LOT more than I initially intended to put in), but what a great ride it is !
I said it before, but I'll say it again, it is a great honor for me to have so many people hop on my Crazy Trainz !
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