D&D 5E Copper piece value in U.S. dollars?

[Celebrim]

Which makes sense as minimum wage really did increase the lowest standard of living.

Almost all the big gains in standard of living are owed to the increased productivity of labor. As an hour of labor generates more goods, the price of goods relative to an hour of labor goes down, and consequently the standard of living goes up. Fiddling with the customary minimum wage only changes the price of 'coin', and not the value of labor. Valuation of labor in coin changed in the middle ages only when it became clear the value of coin was falling, though I don't think it was necessarily understood that coin was falling in value because coin was more plentiful. The discussion of purchasing power parity in 'A Connecticut Yankee in King Author's Court' is as brutal as it is cynical, but it's also tragically very believable. However, aside from correcting for inflation, there has been numerous studies showing that the actual standard of living barely shifts when wage controls are introduced, precisely because the value of coin quickly adjusts. However, this discussion touches on modern opinions and will quickly get as political as discussing the actual effects on giving tax credits for mortgage interest.

So artisans might be a little better off, being a well-paid member of the small medieval middle class, since they can afford either the "modest" or "poor" lifestyle options. With minimum wage equating to someone who can afford the 2sp "poor" option but not quite the 1gp/day "modest" option.

Compared to the poor, medieval artisans were very well off. There was a huge wage gap between the lower class and the middle class, into which fit only by a comparatively small number of relatively wealthy tenants and free landholders. The main cause of that was the guild system, which allowed medieval craftsman to collude to set prices and have a legal monopoly on the sale and transport of goods. The result was that a carpenter or whitesmith could sale a days worth of his labor for many days worth of labor of a farmer - who lacked the same legal protections. And the result of that is that the government subsidization of the middle class drastically decreased the standard of living of the lower class. And the result of that was the Guilds were probably more hated by the farmers than even the tax collectors. I wish I could discuss that in more depth as well, but again, there is a surprisingly direct connection to modern economic theorems, and as someone noted, most people's opinions are still guided by the dead hands of 19th century philosophers of one stripe or another.

 

[jrowland]

I forget what system it was (Dangerous Journeys, or Legendary Journeys I think...one of Gygax's other systems) that used the "B.U.C." for prices.

B.U.C. = Basic Unit of Currency, and that its equivalent to $1 U.S.

So a mug of Ale at a Tavern was 2-10 B.U.C.s just like it is $2-$10 in the U.S. (Natural Light on special to Heady Topper at a High End Pub). The question becomes which Basic Unit of Currency in 5E D&D is closest to a B.U.C.? Look at the prices in the PHB and substitute the word "Dollar" for CP, SP, or GP and then compare real world prices with the "BUC" of choice (converting as needed).

None of those fit perfect, but CP comes awfully close. So, by virtue of simplicity, $1 = 1 CP for a reasonable (1st order) approximation of real world prices. Could it be refined? certainly. But it gets the job done.

For the guy who mentioned comparing to 1970's values, another way to think of it is due to inflation, in the 1970's we call the BUC an SP in the 5E game, but now we say CP is the BUC. Yay inflation!

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

It seems there is rough agreement. For myself, I've always started with the silver piece, and assumed it was somewhere between $10 and $20. An exact figure is pointless, but that represents a familiar range of buying power.

 

[Nergal Pendragon]

You bring up cost of living, which is a fair point. 1sp is the lowest of the Lifestyle Expenses on page 157, which does omit "utilities bills" but also means the person is living in "a leaky stable, a mud-floored hut outside the town, or a vermin-infested boarding house". It's a level of poverty below our common expectations that fills the gulf between "homeless" and "welfare recipient". Which makes sense as minimum wage really did increase the lowest standard of living.

So artisans might be a little better off, being a well-paid member of the small medieval middle class, since they can afford either the "modest" or "poor" lifestyle options. With minimum wage equating to someone who can afford the 2sp "poor" option but not quite the 1gp/day "modest" option.


I feel comfortable with my "split the difference" option with 5sp having roughly the same buying power as $50. Earning a gp a day ($100) is good, but you're barely middle class, and earning $10 makes living hard in the modern world.
It likely doesn't work out perfectly as the cost of so many items is based more on how available items are to adventurers and balance, plus the cost in earlier editions. A longsword has been 15gp for multiple editions. They likely didn't go through the book and calculate reasonable prices so much as eyeballed the value and went "eh, close enough".

Sword of Spirit brought up a fair point on the 1sp per day: It's a typo. That means the accurate pay is later on, where it's stated to be 2sp per day. That puts the lifestyle at Poor instead of Squallid.

I would also state that the lifestyle costs are actually higher for adventurers than they are for most people; the lifestyle costs include the maintenance of adventuring equipment, which most people probably don't have. Your average farmer or laborer really has no use for a suit of scale armor or a longsword. And in the few cases where those would be handy, they likely don't have the skill to use them in the first place.

Maybe it's more accurate to say that the typical commoner pays half what an adventurer does? Might be better to go with 3/4ths. Either way, I don't believe the commoner cost and the adventurer cost for lifestyles are going to be the same just due to the inherent differences.

Either way, it seems general consensus is moving towards 1cp = $1, so I think that both you and I are being left in the dust. And I'm inclined to agree with the rough estimate everyone is moving towards simply because it simplifies math. Plus, we have hints it may be the official exchange rate anyway. Still hoping we can track that down...

 

[Jester David]

Sword of Spirit brought up a fair point on the 1sp per day: It's a typo. That means the accurate pay is later on, where it's stated to be 2sp per day. That puts the lifestyle at Poor instead of Squallid.

I think "untrained hireling" might be a more high paying job than "untrained labourer". Especially since working for adventurers is hazardous.

I would also state that the lifestyle costs are actually higher for adventurers than they are for most people; the lifestyle costs include the maintenance of adventuring equipment, which most people probably don't have. Your average farmer or laborer really has no use for a suit of scale armor or a longsword. And in the few cases where those would be handy, they likely don't have the skill to use them in the first place.

If you're paying 1sp per day on lifestyle, you're not likely doing much adventuring.

 

[Nergal Pendragon]

I think "untrained hireling" might be a more high paying job than "untrained labourer". Especially since working for adventurers is hazardous.

That's my thought as well, but that 2sp is the only figure we have. And it makes sense from a historical context, as noted by Sword of Spirit on page 4.

If you're paying 1sp per day on lifestyle, you're not likely doing much adventuring.

Or doing too much and in dire need of a vacation.