D&D 5E Cordon of Arrows and Invisibility

You would know the arrow flew into something and was destroyed, you just wouldn't know what or why.

I have to disagree with this statement. There is a possiblity that a character might see this, but it really depends on the speed that the ammunition moves and the ability of the player to perceive it. I suggest a chance but with a moderate perception check.

It's even possible that the perception check could be altered based on other factors. Like the direction the PC is facing compared to the ammunition that is fired. If the PC is facing the north wall, but the ammunition along the west wall moves heading east, there is a chance the PC won't see it, but the PC that is facing west would see it. Hence, a need to a modifier based on character position.

Other factors could also affect the character's ability to see the impact. Distance, lighting, obsacles just to name a few.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Ammunition speed is not based within the rules of the game we're discussing. I suggest no check and not burying the players under a mountain of checks for something as basic as seeing where a magically enchanted arrow/bolt goes for a spell that already requires a dex saving throw to do barely any damage. Less is more in this kind of situation.
 

Another example on the (relative to other editions of our game) worthlessness of invisibility.
D&D started out giving out low-level spells like Invisibility and Charm Person with ridiculously strong effects*.

But that's a poor reason to keep it so.

Since they couldn't remove the spells (by moving them to appropriately high levels) they instead nerfed them. Quite rightly I believe.

Nothing prevents you from reinstating the spells' power from previous editions, though. Just don't expect the majority of players to prioritize "it's always been like that" over spells with power commensurate with their level.

As a comfort, check out the Philter of Love in the DMG. It's deliciously old-school :)



*) Or rather, if all you do is murderhobo down dungeons, I guess they're fine the way they were. But they're ridiculously strong in other settings, and outside of combat.
 

Ammunition speed is not based within the rules of the game we're discussing. I suggest no check and not burying the players under a mountain of checks for something as basic as seeing where a magically enchanted arrow/bolt goes for a spell that already requires a dex saving throw to do barely any damage. Less is more in this kind of situation.

You have to consider what is trying to be achieved here and how it is being achieved. Mechanics aside, my perspective is from a storytelling perspective and considered general physics.



You have an arrow stuck in the ground that quickly flies to a target and vanishes. The target is invisible, and taking damage doesn't change that. The information that would be easily available is what direction the arrow moved, but the actual location that the arrow vanished would not be that easy to find. There is a chance that the player would see it, but there is a higher chance they would not.

I argue this considering reality. If I fire an arrow at a target that arrow is easily visible when it leaves my bow, but depending on how well my ability to perceive it is, and the strength which the bow is drawn determines how well I see it as it moves through the air. Add to that a component where the arrow vanishes upon impact to the target and suddenly the opportunity to miss that event increases. In the hands of a skilled archer the average arrow from a longbow moves at the rate of 190fps (~129mph. The human eye can see at the frame rate of 10-12. I have seen videos of an arrow fired from a longbow in slow motion that were shot at a frame rate of 5000 and the arrow travels 30ft in less than a second. An object moving at just 20 mph moves 30ft in one second so you are talking more than 6 times that fast.

The spells states: "whenever a creature other than you comes within 30 feet of the ammunition for the first time on a turn or ends its turn there, one piece of ammunition flies up to strike it." That means that the PC has 100ths of seconds to see the arrow move and determine where the location is vanished at. It is nearly impossible for the human eye to catch a motion that quickly. We are talking about motion that the character might not be able to see, then the object they are attempting to track vanishes instantly. You have to ask how could the character see that. There is a chance but no matter how you slice it a Perception Check is required.

Applying a check to actually catch the spot that the arrow vanishes isn't creating a mountain of checks. Its one, and that simply gives the players a chance to notice that location. A single check isn't going to bog down the game, unless you follow it with a ton more checks related to it.

I am reading Of Dice and Men by David Ewalt and in Chapter 2 or 3, his character, Weslocke, enounters a similar situation. In that case the character used Summon Monster VI to summon yeth hounds to track the invisible creatures. Achieving a similar objective, but with objects that do not disappear. Once they saw where the yeth hounds were attacking the party moved closed in on the creatures to beat them.

If I were the DM in this case, I would tell the player the direction the arrow moved, but require a Perception check to locate the exact location simply because without magical improvements, no PC could actually see an object moving at 190fps that vanishes the instant of impact.
 
Last edited:

Thanks all for sharing. Alright here's another complication: All objects in this room is invisible. This includes the arrows which were fired at the invisible monster. I would still rule that PCs have a chance to locate the monster if and only if the arrows hit, from the sound of impact, painful grunt, shifting of footing etc. Remember that the monster could still see everything in this room.
Let me know how you would still do it.
 
Last edited:

Another:
After taking a beating from the unseen monster, with some suddenly flying backwards hitting the wall from powerful invisible force (and thus successfully creating tension at the table), the Druid cast Conjure Animal, summoning 4 black bears. The animals couldn't see the monster of course, but with Keen Smell ability, I allowed the bears to make Perception checks with advantage to find that monster. With 4 bears with 4 checks, it is easy to track that monster.

How would you do it if using Conjure Animals?
Fyi the Druid would select the CRs while DM select the type of animals to be summoned.
 
Last edited:

Thanks all for sharing. Alright here's another complication: All objects in this room is invisible. This includes the arrows which were fired at the invisible monster. I would still rule that PCs have a chance to locate the monster if and only if the arrows hit, from the sound of impact, painful grunt, shifting of footing etc. Remember that the monster could still see everything in this room.
Let me know how you would still do it.

My first question would have to be why is everything, including the arrows the party brought to cast cordon of arrow also invisible. It would seem to me that there is some object in the room that makes everything entering invisible. This means that even the PCs will not see each other. I suggest using a Perception Check to locate the creature. I believe the DC would be set by the creature's Stealth roll but I would decrease that roll it based on being hit by the arrow. (I might even include thw amount of damage on determining that modifier.)

Keep in mind that given the fact that everything in the room is invisible, including the PCs, this complicates movement and may require Perception Checks to avoid running into other party members.
 

Another:
After taking a beating from the unseen monster, with some suddenly flying backwards hitting the wall from powerful invisible force (and thus successfully creating tension at the table), the Druid cast Conjure Animal, summoning 4 black bears. The animals couldn't see the monster of course, but with Keen Smell ability, I allowed the bears to make Perception checks with advantage to find that monster. With 4 bears with 4 checks, it is easy to track that monster.

How would you do it if using Conjure Animals?
Fyi the Druid would select the CRs while DM select the type of animals to be summoned.

With conjure animals this becomes much simpler. The animals get the Perception Checks and collectively should have little trouble locating the creature. The party just sits back and starts attacking thr space immediately in front of the bears once they all start attaçking the creature.
 

Remove ads

Top