Core+1

[Remathilis]

If Dark Sun has to rewrite all of the core rules because of the need to reflavor them for the setting, then it might be a ‘Dark Sun Players Handbook’.

So, option 2 might work.

Well considering Dark Sun is pretty much its own game and should have its own PHB/DMG/MM to do it justice (as most, if not all of the core stuff is invalid beyond the combat mechanics and spells) I guess lumping psionics in the DS PHB would solve that problem elegantly.

 

[Remathilis]

Except the suspicion WotC uses it to not test content from supplement A together with supplement B; which is reprehensible.

Honest question: we have 5 supplements so far (Elemental Evil Player's Guide, SCAG, Volo, Xanathar, and Mordenkainen). Are there ANY broken combos that involve rules from at least two of these supplements? Hell, most of the broken stuff I've heard of is either located in the PHB (moon druid) or doesn't require crazy interactions (Healing Spirit).

I don't hang out with Char-ops, but if you can show an example of Supp A not playing well with Supp B, I'll give your supposition some consideration.

 

[jgsugden]

Well considering Dark Sun is pretty much its own game and should have its own PHB/DMG/MM to do it justice (as most, if not all of the core stuff is invalid beyond the combat mechanics and spells) I guess lumping psionics in the DS PHB would solve that problem elegantly.

... if you want to make psionics Dark Sun unique. If you want psionics in a fantasy game and tie them too closely into a DSspecific book, you're limited in your psionics options.

 

[Remathilis]

... if you want to make psionics Dark Sun unique. If you want psionics in a fantasy game and tie them too closely into a DSspecific book, you're limited in your psionics options.

Well, I would want psionics in an Eberron game, so that does cause a problem.

That does raise an interesting point: I wonder what would happen if/when we actually get setting-specific stuff in a setting guide of some type? Would THAT be a cause for PHB +2? (PHB + Setting book + supplement?)

 

[jgsugden]

Well, I would want psionics in an Eberron game, so that does cause a problem.

That does raise an interesting point: I wonder what would happen if/when we actually get setting-specific stuff in a setting guide of some type? Would THAT be a cause for PHB +2? (PHB + Setting book + supplement?)

As we already have a setting specific book (SCA) and there is no such rule, I'd say that we might be SOL.

 

[Remathilis]

As we already have a setting specific book (SCA) and there is no such rule, I'd say that we might be SOL.

Yes, but the SCAG pretty much uses the PHB "as written", I'm more curious about a setting* that deviates radically from the PHB.

Dark Sun is, theoretically, a good example of this; lets say DS forces ALL elves to take the "Athasian Elf" subrace to account for their difference from standard PHB elves. Under PHB +1, no elf could take a subclass from Xanathar's. The difference being; while a (for example) elf storm sorcerer can't be a sea elf or eladrin, he can still be a high or wood elf, but if all elves are required to be Athasian elf subraced and no PHB subraces are not allowed, that elves could never have options beyond the PHB (and whatever DS book the athasian elf subrace is in). I don't mind having to choose between picking exotic races and subclasses, but if a hypothetical DS would disallow options from the PHB and replace them, it doesn't seem fair to force anyone to have to use their +1 to play a PHB race.

I guess we'll cross that bridge if/when we get another setting beyond Faerun.

 

[CapnZapp]

Honest question: we have 5 supplements so far (Elemental Evil Player's Guide, SCAG, Volo, Xanathar, and Mordenkainen). Are there ANY broken combos that involve rules from at least two of these supplements?

No.

(Again, it isn't me that's peddling the idea that PHB+1 signifies that WotC has stopped balancing all their content)

 

[CapnZapp]

Well considering Dark Sun is pretty much its own game and should have its own PHB/DMG/MM to do it justice (as most, if not all of the core stuff is invalid beyond the combat mechanics and spells) I guess lumping psionics in the DS PHB would solve that problem elegantly.

I consider this option wholly divorced from reality. During this edition's run WotC has done everything it can to not split their player base like that.

 

[CapnZapp]

I guess we'll cross that bridge if/when we get another setting beyond Faerun.

I think we will never get a setting which does not allow PHB material.

Everything WotC is doing nowadays is herding its player base together using a "D&D setting". This is necessary to finally break out into the really profitable markets: movies and their merchandize. To Hasbro, ttrpgs is a minute sideshow.

 

[Remathilis]

I think we will never get a setting which does not allow PHB material.

Everything WotC is doing nowadays is herding its player base together using a "D&D setting". This is necessary to finally break out into the really profitable markets: movies and their merchandize. To Hasbro, ttrpgs is a minute sideshow.

I consider this option wholly divorced from reality. During this edition's run WotC has done everything it can to not split their player base like that.

Here is the thing: Dark Sun is a setting that proudly spit in the eye of the medieval fantasy setting presented in the normal PHB. That's it's selling point to many. Talk to a Dark Sun player about what races and classes shouldn't be allowed in the setting, and you'll get on average 50-75% of the PHB options as not compatible with the setting. Even though WotC included material in later DS for 3.5 (Dragon Mag) and 4e, there is a part of DS's base that would riot at tieflings, paladins, monks, half-orcs, and the like on Athas, let alone hill dwarves and wood elves.

They have said, often in relation to psionics, they are working on Dark Sun. They have only a few ways they can do this:

1. Sell a setting book that tells it's players a sizable chunk of thier other books can't be used;
2. Create a version of Athas more accommodating to the PHB, at the cost of some of its identity;
3. Create a separate spin-off game, akin to Gamma World, that is compatible with 5e but uses is own version of the 5e engine and can alter whatever is needed to fit the settings aesthetic.

1 can never fly for today's WotC; they are not about telling players and DMs what is/isn't allowed. So 2 and 3 are the only reasonable options and the choice between the two comes down to what is more important; PHB compatibly or setting purity.