Core Classes that IMO are lame

[Clay_More]

Check it out, its actually quite excellent IMO. Has many new, kewl spells. Especially counter-spells & such are well-developed. AND its a nice site he has

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/hosted/Dusk/?file=magic.php&body=./magic/_spellpoint.php

 

[shivamuffin]

Point systems have been around since 1e. They're cool, if everybody is on board with the system.

I miss the old casting times though. It was a nice balance to powerful spellcasting when you had to add 9 segs to the casting time! It created the need for people to protect spellcasters in battle. Now the system is so arcade, and unchallenging for spellcasters.

I also miss the segment system, because it made drinking potions more time consuming....The standard time was d4+1 segments to consume a potion. It was possible to die in that round, before the potion took effect. Loved that system.

 

[Clay_More]

Getting Nostalgic?
Well, I think it would be fair if a potion took some time before it went into effect. I mean, no medicin in our modern world works as fast as a potion. I always thought that a potion would have to enter into the belly where it had to kind of get consumed before it worked, but no. A potion works even BEFORE the contents enter the belly.

 

[shivamuffin]

I like how dead people, or mostly dead people, can consume a potion, and pop back to life!

In the 1e rules and 2e rules, there was a lag time. 0 and below was a technical death, and recovering from death took 2-3 weeks, not to mention a 6 turn period of unconciousness! So there was no pop back up and swing the sword crap....THAT is lame. THAT make D20 very arcade and unfufilling.

I'm throwing together some of my old house rules, and tweeking them for D20.

 

[Clay_More]

I still houserule deaths IMC. The character is fatigued for 2 weeks, no matter what spell ressurected him. Any day spent doing anything other than rest results in two more days added to the Fatigue time.
Having been reduced to beneath 1 hitpoints and then healed, through any means, results in the character being fatigued for one day. If he performs any other actions apart from resting on that day, he will be fatigued for another day. It cannot result in him being fatigued for more than two days though.

 

[shivamuffin]

Home rules I tweeked from 2e, for 3e...This is what I've ok'd so far. Most of it is setting specific. The dead raising section is the focus though...I'm going to ad the old 1e rules for recovery too.



Restricted Classes


Humans cannot be sorcerers
Urites are the exception
Also see
the Sha' ir


Restricted Races


Elves are not permitted as Pcs in mixed ( Non Elven ) groups.
1/2 Elves do not exist


Beginning Funds

4d10x10xlvl


Wizard Spell books



0 d8
1st d6
2nd d4

Wizards receive a bonus skill: Profession 4 ranks.
This reflects 8 years of university schooling/apprenticeship,
Wizardry is not a public practice, people associate it with fairies and demons. A knowledge skill relating to the profession must be chosen as well. Example lawyer will need knowledge/local law.

Bards no longer cast spells
Rangers no longer cast spells

*Clerics receive the bonus skill: Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks.



Ressurection & Raising the Dead

Being dead is a traumatic event, and it will cost the PC not only money and resources, it will cost physically. 1 Con point will be lost per resurrection or raise dead performed. ONLY a wish spell, used for the purpose of bringing back the dead PC will negate the loss of the Con. A PC can only be resurrected or raised as many times as they have Con points.


Critical Hits

A natural 20 is a critical hit. Case closed. There is no need to re roll to confirm the critical. Beating the 1 in 20 chance is sufficient.

 

[Dark Eternal]

As a player I have no problem with any of the classes. It's as a DM. D20 mechanics don't seem to leave room for modifications.

*blink. blink.*

You and I can't possibly be living on the same planet.

If I wan't to run a cheezy FR style campaign, the classes are fine, but lower the magic, or throw in some setting specific restrictions and things get ugly.

Sure, if you don't want to spend a little bit of time doing something about it... I've run games in everything from completely magic dead settings to "cheezy FR style" homebrews, and I've never found that it takes much work or time to make a few minor adjustments, and everything glides along like a cat in a K-Y jelly spill.

Perhaps I (or my players/dungeon masters/fellow gamers) are just used to a different style of gaming... because I really don't see the problem that you see. *shrugs*

Originally posted by shivamuffin
Just taking away the spell use of the ranger kills the class, unless you add something in its place, but you have to be careful what the spells are replaced with or you have a too powerful class to deal with....In 2e, we dropped the spell use and things worked just fine.

You have to be careful when you make any changes to anything in the system... hell, some people claim (I don't agree, but their claims are perfectly fair) that you have to be careful as soon as one of your players says "I'm playing a [insert spellcasting class here]." So? There's no limit to the number of ways that you can adjust the class to compensate for lack of spellcasting. It's really not very difficult to make sure that whichever way you do it doesn't "kill the class" or create "a too powerful class" to deal with.

Compared to writing up the wizard core class with no spells, this is a walk in the park.

 

[Frostmarrow]

Since when is it a prerogative of the thread starter to dictate "rules"?

That's not new or particulary strange. If the thread-starter is concerened about the thread he should keep the posters informed about the rules. The alternative can be that the moderators close the thread or that the thread gets hijacked.

In this case the thread-starter is simply reminding people of rules that were clearly stated in the very first thread.

 

[shivamuffin]

*blink. blink.*

You and I can't possibly be living on the same planet.


Yes. we are. I found 2e more forgiving as far as making changes.

d20 is deceptively complex. I appreciate it, but it's also a problem when you just don't want an FR type setting. Of course I can pull it off, because I'm an awesome DM, but it's been alot more difficult to convert things to 3e, than it was for 2e...I've been playing this game since the 1e books were new...

 

[hong]

Yes. we are. I found 2e more forgiving as far as making changes.

d20 is deceptively complex.

You need to play more and complain less.

I appreciate it, but it's also a problem when you just don't want an FR type setting. Of course I can pull it off, because I'm an awesome DM, but it's been alot more difficult to convert things to 3e, than it was for 2e...I've been playing this game since the 1e books were new...

Too many... ellipses... tend to make you look... a bit slow....