Core materials: Action Points and Insider

[Felon]

To me, an improvement on Action Points would be to declare them before rolling to hit. In that case, it really would be risking the loss of the Action Point itself and it would rarely be done in "nearly sure thing" type moments. Instead, it would only be used in real emergency moments.

Used when needed, but a fair chance that it might not affect the situation at all.

As designed though, they are a lame metagaming mechanic. IMO.

Well, I have found that in my experience the sheer quantity of action points awarded--five plus 1/2 level--is excessive. They get used for frivolous stuff, like confirming crits just for the hell of confirming a crit. I house-ruled it down to a flat five, and they aren't awarded based on level but rather whenever I, the DM, feel like awarding XP (usually after reaching some kind of checkpoint or accomplishing something).

 

[The_Universe]

No. I am talking about forcing your character to ham it up for the DM in order to gain more AP. This happens in M&M. You have to perform in order to get them and if you do not have them, you can be seriously screwed. I detest that mechanic.

I think this is probably an artifact of most of your experience with Mutants and Masterminds being one-shots and con games. In a 4-5 hour session, it's reasonably impractical to expect to delve deep into any character's backstory to bring a complication (like a secret identity, or a nagging ex-wife) into play. Under those time constraints, the Hero/Force/Action/Whatever Point mechanic is generally reduced to being activated by short term losses and additional problems, such as the aforementioned GM Fiat award ("I'm screwing you over! Here's a Hero Point!") and the rare kinds of complications that can result in quick disadvantageous situations ("Your nagging ex-wife" becomes "Your nagging ex-wife calls you while you're trying to sneak up behind the bad guy!").

In any case, I strongly doubt that the D&D Action Points are going to be same kind of "Narrative Control" mechanic that they are M&M. I suspect they'll have something similar to their current use in d20 Modern, with a few additional abilities chunked in.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

Inspired by this thread's discussion, I created a different mechanic. Reaction Points. Here's the rules (reposted and slightly edited from Monte Cook's board).

Cleft City Design Diary Three: Reaction Points

Combat will get a bit spicier in my new game. I’m still undecided about Hero Points. I like them a lot, though I am stingy with them. It seems the players rely upon them to evade near-death scenarios that I keep coming up with. My response now is that whether or not I use HPs, I’m adding Reaction Points. Thoughts and feedback on these would be welcomed, please.

You may use a Reaction Point in one of the following ways, all of which are actions allowed even after being attacked even when it is not your turn in the sequence:

1. Take a defensive combat manuever or use a combat rite.
2. Cast a defensive spell. The spell’s duration regardless of its original text is one round. This casting is as a free action. Anything that would break invisibility is not a defensive spell.
3. Take a defensive movement of up to 15 feet to go behind fixed cover (i.e. not behind people). You are still subject to AoOs along the way.
4. Use the Aid Another action to assist any ally or non-combatant within your Reach.
5. Switch places with another ally or non-combatant within 15 feet and take the consequences intended for them.

Reaction Points are awarded at the start of every session, with bonus points awarded for uses #4 and #5 above at the DMs discretion. Use of a Reaction Point does not change your initiative.

Oh yeah, the DM will get one of these for every 10 awarded to the PCs, to be spent on any NPC that he wishes.

 

[hong]

IMO Action Points should enable you to pull off heroic, cinematic stunts and guarantee they succeed. That's why they're A) Rare (and you should get even less than them IMO), and B) Only available to PCs and "mastermind" NPCs (i.e. BBEGs and high-level minions, not mooks). As they stand now, they don't let you pull off anything, just add a paltry die roll where it's probably not going to matter. And that's not heroic at all.

IME, the more you make APs rare-but-powerful, the less they will be used for heroic, cinematic stunts. Instead, they'll be used as insurance: when you really need to make a save, or avoid a killing blow. This is not necessarily a Bad Thing, mind.

 

[coyote6]

IME, the more you make APs rare-but-powerful, the less they will be used for heroic, cinematic stunts. Instead, they'll be used as insurance: when you really need to make a save, or avoid a killing blow. This is not necessarily a Bad Thing, mind.

It can allow you to run a gritty game, a la "Saving Private Ryan", the Black Company novels, etc. -- fiction where lots of people die, but oddly, the protagonists usually manage to survive, luckily (i.e., the mortar round never lands on them -- not until the end of the movie, anyways).

 

[Stalker0]

I used to really hate the conception of action points when I started gaming. They seemed so metagamey to me.

But as time has gone on, I've learned to really love them. To me, they provide the bridge between gritty gaming and cinematic heroic fun. They solve that nagging problem, how do you create a game where people can get killed in a single blow and have characters survive long enough to be heroes?

Personally, I would love if action points were a per encounter resource, that let you do cinematic heroic stuff. But if nothing else, I hope they tear them away from leveling. Giving action points ever level just doesn't work because campaigns do not all level the same.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

But as time has gone on, I've learned to really love them. To me, they provide the bridge between gritty gaming and cinematic heroic fun. They solve that nagging problem, how do you create a game where people can get killed in a single blow and have characters survive long enough to be heroes?

This is really the heart of the debate:

"Realism!"

"Fun!"

It's two great tastes that go great together, but you need a way to accomplish it without breaking suspension of disbelief. Putting that option in the players hands is genius.

 

[D.Shaffer]

Personally, I would love if action points were a per encounter resource, that let you do cinematic heroic stuff. But if nothing else, I hope they tear them away from leveling. Giving action points ever level just doesn't work because campaigns do not all level the same.

I rather enjoy the Spycraft method for Action dice. You have a set amount given at each session. When you use one it goes into the GM's action dice pool which he is then able to use for similar abilities for the NPCs. The GM can reward players for 'approriately entertaining' actions by rewarding them with action dice.

Players can do 'cool stuff' and be rewarded by it.
They can use them to do further 'cool stuff'
The GM's get rewarded for letting them do 'Cool Stuff'
and GM's are given a carrot to reward the players for doing 'Cool stuff' to begin with.

 

[Wormwood]

I rather enjoy the Spycraft method for Action dice. You have a set amount given at each session. When you use one it goes into the GM's action dice pool which he is then able to use for similar abilities for the NPCs. The GM can reward players for 'approriately entertaining' actions by rewarding them with action dice.

I can't believe Spycraft has been out since 2002 and I've never seen that *awesome* mechanic before!

I am sooo checking this out! Thanks for the heads up.

 

[hong]

This is really the heart of the debate:

"Realism!"

"Fun!"

It's two great tastes that go great together, but you need a way to accomplish it without breaking suspension of disbelief. Putting that option in the players hands is genius.

So, would realism be chocolate, and fun is peanut butter? Or is it realism is peanut butter, and fun is chocolate? I always get confused by these food metaphors.