Core Only Gish?

[Moonstone Spider]

In a game I'm playing we've been told we're going to be in a tournament, with teams of 4 players competing against each other. The GM has stated that Roleplaying will not earn anything so I've decided to try to build something as strong as I can.

Characters are level 15, 32 point buy. Allowable material is only the SRD, and he's already nerfed my first concept by removing leadership (although he said I could buy the Pegasus if I still wanted it so it's not all bad), but everything else is legal so far.

Since we only have four players I feel the need to cover more than one base. I decided on a gish build. first I tried Sorcerer but he needed to be able to wear armor and have more HP, and anyway Bards get the buffs a Gish needs. This character is meant to be more fighter than caster although I'm not sure I totally pulled it off. I'll likely try to get some sort of mount so the Gish has more direct fighting power.

The character concept so far is:
Bard 8, Fighter 2, Eldritch Knight 5
HP: 2d10(Fighter) + 13d6 (Bard & EK)
BAB: +13/+8/+3
Casts Spells as a 12th level Bard.
3 Fighter Bonus Feats

Any advice on this character?

 

[Deset Gled]

If you're going to go bard, go straight bard. If you want to go Eldritch Knight, go wizard/fighter. There's a lot more to a bard than spellcasting, so just getting the casting progression from EK doesn't help much. Wizard, OTOH, gets you higher level spells earlier, and access to a much better list. And because you'll be spending a lot of rounds doing things other than casting, the extra spells per day from Sorc levels aren't very important.

 

[starwed]

In addition to the Eldritch Knight, there's also a couple of options with psionics, if the DM will allow it. (Psionics are in the SRD, after all...)

1. The psychic warrior: You don't have to worry about the multiclassing; it's a base class gish. But you don't get any blasting power.
2. The slayer PRc. Somewhat like the eldritch knight, but building off of the ranger/psion combo. I think you can find some nice builds for this in the WotC forums.

 

[Nifft]

Advice: don't bother with Eldrich Knight. It's not worth it for a Bard.

Bard:
- d6 HD
- 6 skill points
- great skill list
- magic bard songs that give you & allies combat bonuses
- 3/4 BAB

EK:
- d6 HD
- 2 skill points
- 9/10 spellcasting
- full BAB


My advice: take one to four levels of Barbarian -- or take Barbarian 2 and Fighter 2 (eventually) -- but don't bother taking Eldrich Knight. Bard 16 / Barbarian 4 is a super-cool combo, able to sing and Rage himself into a frothing frenzy of awesome.

Basically, make sure you get your 4th attack by level 20 (which means BAB +16, which means exactly four levels of full-BAB class by level 20), and use your class abilities to compensate for your low-ish BAB.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Iku Rex]

Question 1: What are the rules for the tournament? Buff time? Item restrictions? How often do you expect to have to fight?
Question 2: Will you have standard 15th level items (200 000 gp worth)?
Question 3: Can you use non-PHB races (with level adjustment)?

 

[Moonstone Spider]

1: It's actually being run as a sort of tournament dungeon so pretty much the same as an average adventure would be, you can buff in advance if you know they're coming and manage an ambush or something. I have no idea how often the group will have to fight but I'm going to assume 4 encounters a day as usual. Characters will probably never level up.

Items are restricted to SRD, and you may only have 3 items costing more than 20,000gp. The 3 may be one 80,000GP item and 2 40,000GP items.
2: Yes.
3: No. Only PHB races.

 

[Thanee]

3: No. Only PHB races.

Then a Gish is not possible.

Bye
Thanee

 

[hanniball]

A decent core-only gish is Ftr 1/Wiz 6/EK 8

+12 BAB, 13th lvl wiz casting, saves 10/5/8, and 2 bonus fighter feats (Power Attack+Improved Initiative)

Alternatively, Bard 16/Ftr 4 (eventually) nets a +16 BAB and 6th level Bard spells. At your level I'd go Bard 13/ftr 2.

Either way...just my 2 cp

 

[hanniball]

Then a Gish is not possible.

Despite being new here I've already heard of your aversion to this term. Which descriptor would you prefer?

 

[Thanee]

Despite being new here I've already heard of your aversion to this term. Which descriptor would you prefer?

Heh. I just call them what they are, i.e. fighter-mage, warrior-mage, or somesuch.

I can certainly see the appeal of a concise term, but Gish just sounds so darn stupid (and is technically the wrong term, of course).

Bye
Thanee