core problem: duelist

[Krafen]

I don't know if you've access to Monte Cooks Arcana Unearthed/Evolved, but I've heard people say nice things about the 'unfettered' class.

HOWEVER,

Personally, I think that the best light armoured, stylish fighter *should* be a fighter - I'd like to see more feats that enabled a clever, charismatic fighter to hold his own against a strong tough fighter. At the moment the core has plenty of feats for strong fighters and some good ones for intelligent fighters (expertise/improved trip/disarm) but doesn't really have anything for charismatic fighters.

Introduce some good feats for charismatic fighters and I think you'd be good to go.

The other classic option for a duellist character is the rogue of course - the lightly armoured, agile fighter, tumbling all over the shop, uncannily dodging and bluffing his opponent and getting in nasty well-placed shots with his rapier. Boost the Con to improve his hit points (and staying power), use some SRD feats like Cloak Dance to give him some style and mechanical bonuses (a miss chance in that case), use his charisma skills of bluff and perform for style - you know what I mean.

Although 'everyone knows' that rogue != thief, it is surprising how often I've seen them played in just that fashion!

Cheers

If you want to play a charismatic fighter, the Dashing Swordsman PRC is your best option.

 

[jasin]

Where is that from?

 

[Darklone]

OOTS boards.

 

[wayne62682]

IMO the Duelist's only problem is the armor restriction and the way you add INT to your AC; it should be an automatic "Add your INT mod to your AC" not "Add one point of INT mod per Duelist level" since that imposes TWO caps (your actual INT score AND your levels in the Duelist PrC) to limit you. My guess is said cap was added to force people to stay in the PrC, but all it really does it give you a neat character who can't defend himself to save his life because his AC is going to be pitifully low unless you spend a huge amount of gold on Bracers/AoNA/RoP and the like.

If you have no problem with being labeled a total munchkin, remember that a Monk who becomes non-lawful does not lose his abilities. You could take one level of Monk for the WIS-to-AC bonus and then just not be lawful anymore (a rather silly restriction anyways, but I digress).

 

[Plane Sailing]

Because if you are jumping between shadows or firing bows, you are not dueling.

The class isn't based on dungeon crawling or battles or sneaking. It's based on an unarmored one on one combat with light weapons between oponents who are aware of each other.

Rogue != thief.

You can be a rogue who can't find traps, doesn't sneak or hide and just relies on unarmoured one on one combat with light weapons - in fact he would be better at it than a fighter thanks to uncanny dodge, bluff, sneak attack etc. Just the kind of thing for an eccentric swashbuckler straight out of pirates of the Caribbean as per original spec.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Thanks QGM and all. I think I'm going to have to hunt down swashbuckler, since it sounds like what I'm after.

There is a whole lot of info about the swashbuckler here - certainly enough to run one.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20050714a

Cheers

 

[SlagMortar]

IMO the Duelist's only problem is the armor restriction and the way you add INT to your AC; it should be an automatic "Add your INT mod to your AC" not "Add one point of INT mod per Duelist level" since that imposes TWO caps (your actual INT score AND your levels in the Duelist PrC) to limit you. My guess is said cap was added to force people to stay in the PrC, but all it really does it give you a neat character who can't defend himself to save his life because his AC is going to be pitifully low unless you spend a huge amount of gold on Bracers/AoNA/RoP and the like.

A good house rule might be to move Elaborate Parry down to 1st level duelist. As Plane Sailing said above, it doesn't make much sense for your fighting defensively bonus to jump from +3 to +10 between level 6 and level 7. Elaborate Parry would still be pretty weak at Duelist 1 (-4/+4 just like Combat Expertise). It would strongly discourage dipping as it is still not usually worth using elaborate parry at first level and it would make the whole PrC make more sense.

 

[wayne62682]

Personally the Duelist "fix" I was toying around (have to playtest it) is simply to allow the abilities to function in Light armor (and give proficiency with it).

 

[Darklone]

I guess the duelists biggest problem is summed up in the abilities they gave to the swashbuckler... more dodge bonuses in addition to Int and easier additional damage.

 

[Klaus]

You can be a single Fighter and be a very decent duelist:

1 - Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (rapier)
2 - Two-Weapon Fighting
3 - Combat Expertise
4 - Weapon Specialization (rapier)
6 - Improved Initiative, Dodge
8 - Improved Critical (rapier)
9 - Mobility
10 - Spring Attack