J.Quondam
CR 1/8
"caltrops of conception"
D&D 5E Could D&D Die Again?
- Thread starter Zardnaar
- Start date
Zardnaar
Legend
If you're aware of what's going on with MTG if one D&D has that type of reception or similar bto 4E and if it goes out of print in a few years and if they go in a different direction with 7E then we can probably conclude it's a dud.
If that's combined with MtG collapsing (slump atm) things get interesting.
My main hypothesis is if One D&D is a dud combined with MtG money not being available to bail it out like paying for 5E development.....
Cordwainer Fish
Imp. Int. Scout Svc. (Dishon. Ret.)
Isn't "ceremonial item" archaeologist speak for "we have no idea what this is supposed to be"?
D&D is safer right now than it has ever been in its history.
There are two ways D&D could perish. One would be if the company that owned it collapsed and the IP rights got parceled out in scraps to bankers and lawyers. The other would be if the game ceased to bring in new players, leaving a dwindling core of diehards who would eventually... well... die.
The first risk was mostly* nullified with the creation of the OGL, and that defense was strengthened by the release of the 5E SRD. The second risk is always on the table, but the flood of new players in the last few years -- and specifically new young players -- means a fresh generation of diehards is being forged right now. Obviously, not every new player is going to be a diehard; just as in the craze of the '80s, the majority will play for a while and move on. But, also as in the '80s, quite a few will stay. Even if the game were to stagnate, they would keep the flame alive for decades to come.
*Not completely nullified; the "Dungeons and Dragons" brand name carries weight, as does a lot of iconic IP that has always been held back from the SRD, and those could still be lost if Wizards/Hasbro made phenomenally bad choices. Still, Pathfinder proved that another company can in fact pick up the torch and carry it, even competing successfully against the official IP and brand name. As a stress test of the OGL, it was a rousing and reassuring success.
There are two ways D&D could perish. One would be if the company that owned it collapsed and the IP rights got parceled out in scraps to bankers and lawyers. The other would be if the game ceased to bring in new players, leaving a dwindling core of diehards who would eventually... well... die.
The first risk was mostly* nullified with the creation of the OGL, and that defense was strengthened by the release of the 5E SRD. The second risk is always on the table, but the flood of new players in the last few years -- and specifically new young players -- means a fresh generation of diehards is being forged right now. Obviously, not every new player is going to be a diehard; just as in the craze of the '80s, the majority will play for a while and move on. But, also as in the '80s, quite a few will stay. Even if the game were to stagnate, they would keep the flame alive for decades to come.
*Not completely nullified; the "Dungeons and Dragons" brand name carries weight, as does a lot of iconic IP that has always been held back from the SRD, and those could still be lost if Wizards/Hasbro made phenomenally bad choices. Still, Pathfinder proved that another company can in fact pick up the torch and carry it, even competing successfully against the official IP and brand name. As a stress test of the OGL, it was a rousing and reassuring success.
EzekielRaiden
Legend
Generally, yes. Mostly because "ceremony" or "ritual" can mean literally anything that isn't exclusively utilitarian. Using the bathroom is a "ritual" in the archaeological sense because it involves specific sequence of behaviors and includes optional but socially-expected behavior (cleaning the seat if you stood to urinate, washing your hands, drying your hands, replacing the toilet paper roll if necessary.) Watering one's plants on a scheduled day is a ritual. Birthdays are ceremonial activities with a large subset of rituals involved (cakes and birthday candles, parties, gift-giving, being polite to the celebrant, reflecting on the past, etc.)
The problem is, in laypeople terms, "ceremony" and "ritual" are presumed to be inherently religious or at least superstitious in nature, which is inaccurate.
Art Waring
halozix.com
In the future,...
laid at the feet of St. Bigby's shrine, encrusted with the gemmed resin-coated d20's of those who cast their dice into the wishing well hoping for D&D to come back in the year 2050... after D&D died from the unforseen paper shortage of 2030...
J.Quondam
CR 1/8
EzekielRaiden
Legend
It is worth noting, however, that there are plenty of objects where they do know what it was supposed to be, but can also determine that it almost certainly had ritual or ceremonial significance. An example being if a culture has a clear pattern of knife design for utilitarian purposes, and then another knife is found that is dramatically more ornate and does not have an accompanying honing tool like a normal knife would have. The extra materials/workmanship and often fragility of such a decorated knife make it both more expensive and (often) less functional, and yet the thing has still been made and even used. This indicates that some kind of value or meaning was ascribed to the object beyond just its functional existence as a tool for cutting things: ritual or ceremonial significance.
Ulorian - Agent of Chaos
Adventurer
You might enjoy: A Canticle for Leibowitz - Wikipedia
J.Quondam
CR 1/8
Oh, I do! Excellent recommendation for lovers of post-apoc, imo.
Ulorian - Agent of Chaos
Adventurer
It's a pretty extraordinary commentary on... well, lots of stuff. Church vs. state, how we interpret history, and much more. Quite powerful.
Vaalingrade
Legend
After a heavy Thanksgiving dinner, using the bathroom can be a religious experience. You may see God.
Well.....maybe no "die", but sure become "undead".
You don't need to be a financial genius to see a bad economy starting. People have less spending money, so they can't buy things like games. So sales will drop.
And...well, it's hard for a modern company to put out "good" content. A LOT of gamers were less then happy with the Spelljammer Scribble, for example. So, woe for 5.5E....
And the movie? Well, chances are it won't be so great. They could make it great, but then they would have to do things they don't like and are against.
But any way...so yea, D&D becomes a far background thing. People say "oh yea that game" or things like "Oh I remember that game...do people still play it?"
You don't need to be a financial genius to see a bad economy starting. People have less spending money, so they can't buy things like games. So sales will drop.
And...well, it's hard for a modern company to put out "good" content. A LOT of gamers were less then happy with the Spelljammer Scribble, for example. So, woe for 5.5E....
And the movie? Well, chances are it won't be so great. They could make it great, but then they would have to do things they don't like and are against.
But any way...so yea, D&D becomes a far background thing. People say "oh yea that game" or things like "Oh I remember that game...do people still play it?"
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
So...1992 all over again.
MichaelSomething
Legend
If by "dying" you mean "no longer controlled by a megacorp" then let death come!
The sooner that happens, the sooner the game becomes driven by the gamers instead of the stock holders. We'll say what goes on at table without some new "product" contradicting us. No longer will professional designers tell us how to run our games. We can mold new players into our ways of playing without mainstream culture polluting their mindsets.
The sooner that happens, the sooner the game becomes driven by the gamers instead of the stock holders. We'll say what goes on at table without some new "product" contradicting us. No longer will professional designers tell us how to run our games. We can mold new players into our ways of playing without mainstream culture polluting their mindsets.
Jack Daniel
dice-universe.blogspot.com
The only "D&D" worth a jot is the idea of the game; the lifestyle brand is meaningless. Even if WotC were to fold tomorrow and Hasbro were to shelve the IP indefinitely, D&D would live on in every retro-clone, Pathfinder, Castles & Crusades, etc.
Davies
Legend
Maybe. "But maybe everything that dies, someday comes back."
Vaalingrade
Legend
10e: Just sit and argue for four hours before going home angry or in the back of a squad car.
Oofta
Legend
You're assuming D&D needs financial support to survive. Seems like an odd assumption to me. Practically all the D&D products sell well, seeing numbers other RPGs can only dream of. Then there's the ongoing sales of the core books which continue to pay dividends long after they recouped their development costs.
There will be slowdowns in the future, but D&D is self sustaining. May not be a big ticket item for HASBRO as just an RPG. But of value to someone? I think it will still be around for quite some time.
Of course it may also just end up being another example of the Ship of Theseus, D&D in name only because it will continue to evolve and change.
But I don't think the sky is falling just yet, and won’t for a long time. It wouldn't even if they stopped publishing [edit: new] books tomorrow.
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I thought of another death scenario I have not seen mentioned, though I might have missed it:
- TSR3 bribes a judge (Is that the TSR version with the extremely overt racist in it? I don't want to besmirch mere scammers/fools by confusing them with nazis)
- WOTC lose their legal case and the TSR3 gets all the rights they are seeking.
- All D&D products are republished with explicitly racist eugenics theory baked into all of the racial choices. They use racist co-opted runic magic as the basis for all spell casting. All villains are caricatures of RL "undesirables".
- We burn down their headquarters and blame it on Antifa.
