Could this be the future format of 4th Edition D&D?

[DeadlyUematsu]

Seriously though. This idea reminds me so much of Warhammer Quest, it's not even funny. I would seriously dig D&D heading in this direction. Especially because WQ did the whole "explore dungeon, kill monster, take stuff, roleplay, ale and wench back home, repeat" so perfectly! Even better than D&D. Slap some Iron Heroes mechanics on and this game would reduce 3E and all the prior editions to a nasty red smear. Grognards be danged.

 

[Cam Banks]

It sounds like you want me to type of the Rulebook for you.
I really don't have the time for that (unless you are someone from WotC ready to hire me).
That not being the case I am still happy to answer specific questions.

I think you're avoiding the main question I had, which is: what's different about the rules? Can you give me even a sample of the kinds of things you're actually talking about or do I have to go through my 3.5 rulebooks rule by rule for confirmation or denial?

I'm not sure if you realize that you're doing it, but you're dancing around a huge minefield of queries by throwing back the ball into our court, and that's not helping me to understand how you expect this to work outside of the marketing flash.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[cthulhu_duck]

Sorry, we cannot dumb down the rules because the majority of the D&D fan community are not dumb.

Occam's Razor says otherwise.

I think you might find that if you actually look Occam's Razor up, it says nothing about game design - it's about explaining phenomena.

 

[JVisgaitis]

Well, I think we've gathered enough data to say that this certainly shouldn't be the next incarnation of D&D. Elitism, fearing change, and everything else aside, this has already turned off the most important demographic for this type of game: the core D&D players. I stand by my original post and say that there is a place for a highly visual D&D lite to attract new players, but trying to turn D&D into an RPG boardgame certainly wouldn't be very successful.

 

[MerricB]

By the way I wanted to ask you your thoughts on the Descent game you mentioned. Feel free to post here, personal message or email me, whichever you think more apropos.

See here:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=186615

You may also find things of interest in my blog:
http://merricb.multiply.com/

Cheers!

 

[DeadlyUematsu]

Well, I think we've gathered enough data to say that this certainly shouldn't be the next incarnation of D&D. Elitism, fearing change, and everything else aside, this has already turned off the most important demographic for this type of game: the core D&D players. I stand by my original post and say that there is a place for a highly visual D&D lite to attract new players, but trying to turn D&D into an RPG boardgame certainly wouldn't be very successful.

I don't know. The core D&D demographic definitely doesn't bother with forums at all.

 

[phindar]

Seriously though. This idea reminds me so much of Warhammer Quest, it's not even funny. I would seriously dig D&D heading in this direction. Especially because WQ did the whole "explore dungeon, kill monster, take stuff, roleplay, ale and wench back home, repeat" so perfectly! Even better than D&D. Slap some Iron Heroes mechanics on and this game would reduce 3E and all the prior editions to a nasty red smear. Grognards be danged.

I think everybody is looking for something slightly different from D&D. Some people like the dungeon crawl, the tactical aspect, the nuts and bolts. Some people like the character play. Some people, as near as I can tell, just like talking in funny voices.

My point is, I don't think the next incarnation of D&D should be something that caters to one aspect of the game, because that splinters the fan base. I think it should be something that expands it, or at the very least retains enough of the core demographic that the newbies pick up the slack.

(That maybe the first unironic use of the phrase "core demographic" I've worked into a conversation. Or, the least ironic use of the phrase, anyway.)

 

[pogre]

I have stated many times I thought the new D&D should incorporate cards and incorporate miniatures even more heavily. Essentially, UK is discussing a boxed set with cards, tiles, and simplified rules with a set of expansion rules. I think they should add a little terrain while they're at it, but that's just me.

The key I think would be a set of collectable cards with feats, abilities, etc. An item with random collectability every player would want. Collectable minis and collectable cards might make this thing a goldmine. Hasbro already has a great model for a lot of this with D&D miniatures and Heroscape.

Asking if this is the wave of the future on ENWorld is a little like asking folks on an Advanced Squad Leader board if they like Flames of War. RPG grognards like us are not willing to do it for the most part. But it probably would sell better for WOTC.

It's a great idea and it could work.

I know a D&D boardgame with a couple of expansions was released in Europe - Paizo had some for sale at one time - how were those?

 

[Valesin]

This 'vision' of the future of D&D made me sick to my ass.

This is not something I would ever play, nor would anyone I know. I am not saying that this isn't the direction WotC will go, because I am afraid it just might be. But I will not be along for the ride.

 

[Mark Hope]

Howdy!

Morning

But the three core rulebooks are not the whole 'shebang' if they were, they wouldn't sell other supplements - now would they.

...

A single core rulebook doesn't give the options of three either.

...

I didn't say it was difficult (although it is daunting for new players and casual gamers), merely that it was more time consuming than it needed to be.

You see, none of these issues relate to the central issue of the discussion as I see it. I am saying that I am happy with 3.5. I am not happy with the idea of starting over from scratch with another system that doesn't offer me anything that I don't already have. If you want to sell me on your idea, you need to stop telling me how 3.5 is no better or worse than your model. You need to show me how your model will roxxor my soxxorz. So far, you haven't.

So just to clarify, you never buy anything outside the core rulebooks.

Er, no. And furthermore, why should I ditch a system that I am happy with, just to switch over to a new system that requires me to buy modular components all over again. Note that, at present, the fact that 3.5 has lots of optional books is not a problem for me - because I already have those books. Why should I ditch them and buy a whole bunch of more stuff that doesn't offer me anything new?

I didn't say it was difficult (although it is daunting for new players and casual gamers), merely that it was more time consuming than it needed to be.

...

I think a lot of people find the book-keeping side of things taxing to do, have a read back over this thread if you need convincing of that. Again, its not that its hard, simply that its more of a chore than it should be.

That may be the case, but I couldn't give two hoots about those people, or their problems with the system. I'm not having any real trouble with it. End of story.

But you just stated that 3.5 was already modular and piecemeal enough for you to downsize it for your kids.

You're missing the point here. As noted above, I already have a modular system that I can use and abuse as I see fit. I see no benefit in buying into a new one, the benefit of which is quite unproven.

Anyway, enjoyable as this discussion is, it is starting to get a bit circular from my perspective. No offense, but you're really not selling your model to me. Pointing out that 3.5 shares many of the characteristics of your model doesn't help your argument - it hurts it. I'm just not seeing the added benefit of your model, given the options and materials that I already have. As I've said before, though, I think it's a good idea for a gaming product, and you have a tip of the hat from me for the thought and effort you have put into it. I'm stepping out of this now mate, otherwise I'm gonna keep going around and around until my head spins and I throw up ...

Not a pretty sight