Counter for pinning smash

[BobTheNob]

I have a player with pinning smash (Martial Power, Level 5 fighter daily power). States that the target is immobilized as long as you are ajacent to it. i.e. if they dont have a special trick up their sleave as to how to get out of the situation, they are basically stuck

Devestating power in so far as you can turn a solo into a hyper flanked pin cussion and deny artillery and skirmish type creatures no hope of being able to position for effectiveness.

It got particularly annoying the other night when a good solo fight turned into a route. I dont mind so much that powers are effective given circumstance, but what I dont like is that there are few creatures with viable counters to this.

But what about this. Is there anything stopping me from having an ally of the target bull rush him out of it? (e.g. an orc sees his boss is pinned down, so he bull rushes his boss out of it) This would, by the description, immediately end the immobilisation. (p.s. no good bull rushing the fighter...hes a dwarf)

Valid?

 

[keterys]

He's immobilized, not restrained, so any forced movement at all works. Including a bull rush from an ally.

 

[Ryujin]

Forced movement and teleport.

 

[Squire James]

The bull rush would work (though a big size difference between the ally and the solo would make it pretty hokey).

An effective solo needs to have a variety of attacks to handle different situations, especially if someone has a power with a duration potentially longer than Save Ends (or the Save can be made so difficult that it Doesn't End). Several countermeasures that don't involve an ally include:

1. An attack that can kill the fighter in a few rounds if he stays in melee range.
2. Ability to teleport.
3. An aura or other abilty that makes staying close to the solo unpleasant (also helps stop flanking nightmares).
4. A move that knocks the fighter back (less effective on dwarves).

or best of all:
5. A combination of 2 or 3 of the above.

Of course, some care needs to be taken to not overuse a single countermeasure. Of each 6 solos met, one with each type of countermeasure and one with none (gotta let them use it once in a while!) is about right.

It doesn't pay to make it too obvious that you designed the monster to stop a Pinning Smash combo, but surely you can justify magical solos teleporting or melee solos being able to kill the fighter unless other PC's take risks to help!

 

[Tony Vargas]

Imobilized while the fighter is adjacent? That's not much worse than a grab. Like a grab, it's broken if you involuntarily move the attacker. There are lots of ways to move a player around involuntarily - the target of the Pinning Smash can do that, or one of the other monsters. Whenever the fighter isn't adjacent, the target can move. Shouldn't be that devestating, except, maybe, vs a solo, who really is a solo (no allies) has no push or slide powers, and really needs to move, even though he's a badass solo who's supposed to be a match for the whole party, anyway - he /can/ still bash on the fighter.

I mean, the fighter is /supposed/ to be a defender, if he can pin one guy down so he has to stay adjacent to him (and fighter's are pretty 'sticky' to begin with, with just thier 1st level class features), he's doing his job. Fullfilling his role in the party. That should rarely be a bad thing for play - though a bad thing for the monsters, obviously.

There are plenty of powers that imobilize, and some others that come close. My Warlord often uses Pin the Foe - which prevents the target from shifting - in combination with our Fighter, that makes it very hard for the victim to get away (he can't shift, and if he moves, the fighter's OA can spoil the movement). It can make a fight a bit more static, but Boss fights tend towards that, anyway, and it can also make a fight vs a lurker or skirmisher a lot less frustrating...

 

[Kordeth]

The bull rush would work (though a big size difference between the ally and the solo would make it pretty hokey).

The solution is bull rush the fighter.

 

[tmatk]

Couldn't the pinned creature simply bullrush the fighter itself?

 

[Ryujin]

There is another option; immobilize the fighter right back. That might make him start to wonder if locking himself in one position was such a good idea.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I don't know about you guys, but typically I've found it a bad idea to be stuck next to a solo elite. There are exceptions (controllers should make it a goal to never be in melee with a defender for instance), but generally it's been a good idea for the fighter to retreat and recoup.

 

[Regicide]

Devestating power

Hardly devastating. There are far worse encounter powers to be hit by, let alone daily powers.