Counter for pinning smash

[Majoru Oakheart]

As a note... 'just eating the fighter' is not really a valid response. A fighter backed up by any leader can probably hold off most solos until the party kills it, especially one that is unable to use special tricks, is forced to go after the person who has special bonuses on them (defensive stance, shield of faith, battlerager, what have you).

You can give the fighter bonuses, sure. But the math is pretty decent in 4e. It is rarely possible to make a fighter so defensive that you can't take him down if you are a monster with a level equal to or higher than the party. Especially a solo.

It will be pretty hard to take down a properly defensive fighter, I agree. A level 6 fighter with a constant +2 power bonus from somewhere and being on the defensive every round, a fighter who had +2 layered plate on and a Heavy Shield might be able to make it so a level 7 solo Red Dragon needs 13+ to hit him. It is still a decent chance of hitting and it does good damage.

Battleragers might have been able to do it before, but since the errata, they'll be in pretty much the same situation as everyone else.

 

[the8bitdeity]

I think powers like this emphasize that battle terrain is INCREDIBLY important in 4ED. A good solo encounter (especially if you KNOW your fighter has this power) should create a situation where the fighter can pin down the solo, but is taking some sort of adverse effect by doing so. Perhaps if you're fighting a red dragon, the fighter can pin down the dragon, but doing so means he ends up stuck when the LAVA GEYSER erupts! A few turns of lava geyser and he'll regret pinning down the dragon and have to retreat from the position.

Good solo design really requires the terrain to be dynamic. I always think to "Final Fantasy" bosses. Have situations where the battlefield changes during the course of the fight to prevent monotony.

Just my $0.02 (CDN)

 

[Regicide]

You can give the fighter bonuses, sure. But the math is pretty decent in 4e. It is rarely possible to make a fighter so defensive that you can't take him down if you are a monster with a level equal to or higher than the party. Especially a solo.

There are a lot of ways. Weakened monster, stoneskin, etc. etc. There are so many dailys that completely cripple a monster it is pretty easy to make someone completely unkillable. But this just goes to show my point of earlier in the thread. Being pinned is the LEAST of a monster's worries, there are FAR more crippling things out there.

 

[Nebulous]

I think powers like this emphasize that battle terrain is INCREDIBLY important in 4ED. A good solo encounter (especially if you KNOW your fighter has this power) should create a situation where the fighter can pin down the solo, but is taking some sort of adverse effect by doing so. Perhaps if you're fighting a red dragon, the fighter can pin down the dragon, but doing so means he ends up stuck when the LAVA GEYSER erupts! A few turns of lava geyser and he'll regret pinning down the dragon and have to retreat from the position.

Good solo design really requires the terrain to be dynamic. I always think to "Final Fantasy" bosses. Have situations where the battlefield changes during the course of the fight to prevent monotony.

Yeah, good suggestions. In my experience though some of the Daily's that get sprung are being used for the first time (like when Pinning Smash hit my solo) and i had no idea what the power could do. I cannot read the Wall of Powers for fun and memorize it. I'm sure by the next solo fight when i prepare for Pinning Smash they'll pull out something even more devastating i've never heard of. But i do think i will make the terrain more dynamic...

 

[Dr_Sage]

As a note... 'just eating the fighter' is not really a valid response. A fighter backed up by any leader can probably hold off most solos until the party kills it, especially one that is unable to use special tricks, is forced to go after the person who has special bonuses on them (defensive stance, shield of faith, battlerager, what have you).

I meant no sarcasm. My apologies.

What I meant was that if the fighter use that power and the monster is focused on him, hes doing exactly what he is suppposed to do. He is forcing the big monster to defeat him. If he is tough, so much the better.

"You will have to deal with me first dragon" from Player's Handbook, remmember?

I personally don't appreciate when I see some DMs trying to use excuses to avoind the defender and hit the "clothies". I don't think you need to create ways of countering the daily power that does 1[W] damage and is basilcally useless against big brutes/soldiers that would probably engage the fighter anyway.

 

[tmatk]

I meant no sarcasm. My apologies.

What I meant was that if the fighter use that power and the monster is focused on him, hes doing exactly what he is suppposed to do. He is forcing the big monster to defeat him. If he is tough, so much the better.

"You will have to deal with me first dragon" from Player's Handbook, remmember?

I personally don't appreciate when I see some DMs trying to use excuses to avoind the defender and hit the "clothies". I don't think you need to create ways of countering the daily power that does 1[W] damage and is basilcally useless against big brutes/soldiers that would probably engage the fighter anyway.

I disagree. A DM needs to know how to challenge his/her players, and then be responsible in using that knowledge. You don't screw them every time, but sometimes you do!

There shouldn't be powers that are automatic "wins" for the player every time. Occasionally there needs to be a surprise, and a power can't work as expected. Otherwise, imo, the game will get boring on both sides of the screen.

 

[Dr_Sage]

I disagree. A DM needs to know how to challenge his/her players, and then be responsible in using that knowledge. You don't screw them every time, but sometimes you do!

There shouldn't be powers that are automatic "wins" for the player every time. Occasionally there needs to be a surprise, and a power can't work as expected. Otherwise, imo, the game will get boring on both sides of the screen.

I underestand your point, but frankly its a daily power and it only prevents momemment: meanning he had to have saved it for this encounter AND he must hit the monster's AC. 1-shot

Preventing someone from moving is hardly auto-win in my opinion.

 

[keterys]

It actually probably is auto-win for a frightening number of solo encounters to make them unable to move at all - though thankfully many solos have ways out of it anyways.

That said, I still find it auto-_boring_ regardless. Static battles are not good, and this one is on the far dark side of static.

 

[Dr_Sage]

It actually probably is auto-win for a frightening number of solo encounters to make them unable to move at all - though thankfully many solos have ways out of it anyways.

That said, I still find it auto-_boring_ regardless. Static battles are not good, and this one is on the far dark side of static.

Oh well.

Wanna know whats most interesting? Noone realised that the game has a level 2 freaking weapon that works exactly the same, and you dont even need to be a fighter to use it:

Pinning Weapon​

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Level 2+​

You use this weapon to root your enemy to the spot.​

Lvl 2 +1 520 gp Lvl 17 +4 65,000 gp
Lvl 7 +2 2,600 gp Lvl 22 +5 325,000 gp
Lvl 12 +3 13,000 gp Lvl 27 +6 1,625,000 gp​

Weapon:​

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Any melee​

Enhancement:​

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Attack rolls and damage rolls​

Critical:​

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+1d6 damage per plus​

Power (Daily):​

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Free Action. Use this power when you hit
an enemy with this weapon. That enemy is immobilized​

until you are no longer adjacent to it.

 

[keterys]

I do realize - doesn't really change my opinion, though