D&D 5E Counterspell nerfed!

[Maxperson]

Ok, then it's your turn. You attack Kelek you would hit but he uses "arcane defense" (which is identical to shield but it's not shield, it's arcane defense - a special ability) Now if he had cast a spell you would then get to use your reaction (if you still had it) to try to smack him again - but it's "not a spell" so you can't. It's irritating.

But again, PCs already have this. There are all kinds of magical class abilities that do stuff and cannot be countered, including some that shield or the equivalent like Arcane Ward.

 

[Maxperson]

But it's not a cantrip at all, that's just to show that some things use spell attacks without being spells. I can't think of any others off the top of my head, but I'm sure there's more.

It's an at will spell attack that as a bonus action does a 1d8+wis mod. That's a cantrip in all but name, and a spell in name.

 

[Mort]

But again, PCs already have this. There are all kinds of magical class abilities that do stuff and cannot be countered, including some that shield or the equivalent like Arcane Ward.

The point is this IS shield in every way that matters - except it's not a spell so none of the stuff that applies to spells applies to it. Notice I wasn't referring to counterspell here, I was referring how this nerfs the guy who took mage slayer and expected it to be useful in such circumstances.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

I'd rather not get into an argument here, so I just went through the classes to see what abilities use spell attacks without being spells. People can draw their own conclusions.

• Star Druid's archer form with a ranged spell attack.
• Artillerist Artificer's Force Ballistas with a ranged spell attack.
• Fathomless Warlock's Tentacles of the Deep with a melee spell attack.
• Spirits Bard's Tale of the Renowded Duelist has a melee spell attack.
• Sun Soul Monk's Radiant Sun Bolt with a ranged spell attack.
• Oathbreaker Paladin's Dread Lord has a melee spell attack.

I think that's all.

 

[Ancalagon]

Wait.... Are you suggesting that "slavering monster" and "social media feed" are different beasts?? Heck, I thought that's why it's called a "feed," the way social media feasts upon the brains of unwary users.

You hurt Social Media's feelings and now Facebook is down. I hope you're happy!

 

[Bill Zebub]

The feat Mage Slayer goes from a bit fringe but VERY useful under certain circumstances to near useless;

Yeah I mentioned this earlier in the thread but nobody said anything.

I love loved the mage slayer feat. Even though it's not considered one of the best feats, it's just so much fun.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Should Divine Smite be counterable?

Just throwing that out there...

 

[Mort]

Should Divine Smite be counterable?

Just throwing that out there...

There is no indication it's happening, it's not any kind of action - hard to make an argument for it even.

Regardless, seems like a pretty bad deal for the caster as smites tend to be 3rd level and below - big resource to waste there (of course mages have more slots than paladins, but still).

 

[Bill Zebub]

There is no indication it's happening, it's not any kind of action - hard to make an argument for it even.

Regardless, seems like a pretty bad deal for the caster as smites tend to be 3rd level and below - big resource to waste there (of course mages have more slots than paladins, but still).

Oh, I meant "should" as a point of design discussion, in terms of whether or not magical actions count as spells, and whether or not the thing being countered needs some kind of casting time. Not "should" in the sense of "would this be useful".

 

[Mort]

Oh, I meant "should" as a point of design discussion, in terms of whether or not magical actions count as spells, and whether or not the thing being countered needs some kind of casting time. Not "should" in the sense of "would this be useful".

Ok,

I'm comfortable say no, divine smite is not a spell and shouldn't be treated as one, just like counterspell can't/shouldn't counter a druid's wildshape (for ex.).

My problem with the current statblock (the ones being discussed) is that it takes what CLEARLY are spells and re-labels them as special abilities for the purpose of ease or expediency - and I think it causes more problems than it solves. In addition to just being sloppy.