Counterspelling--What's the lowdown?

[Infiniti2000]

Mastery of counterspelling is treated as spell turning. From spell turning:
"Spells and spell-like effects targeted on you are turned back upon the original caster. The abjuration turns only spells that have you as a target. Effect and area spells are not affected. Spell turning also fails to stop touch range spells."

So no, it doesn't work on any spells other than those which are single target and targeting the archmage himself.

Mastery of counterspelling isn't exactly spell turning. It's spell turning only for the fact that it turns targeted spells. If you want to be pedantic and says it's exactly spell turning, then you would need to (for example) roll the number of spell levels as well. Obviously (at least I hope it's obvious), you don't do that because it's not spell turning. Any time an archmage counters a spell, it is turned back upon the caster if it can be affected by spell turning. Only targeted spells can be affected.

Readied actions in general are an obvious thing that an opponent is doing. If you're a wizard, and your opponent appears to be focussed on you and ready to cast a spell, what do YOU think he's doing?

How do you know that your opponent is a spellcaster, much less ready to cast a spell? What makes you say that readied actions are obvious? This sounds like it's entirely your interpretation and not spelled out by the rules, unless I am missing something. Based on your interpretation, however, I can pretty much guarantee that no one has ever readied a spear or similar weapon against a charge in your campaign.

 

[Felix]

Mastery of counterspelling is treated as spell turning. From spell turning:
"Spells and spell-like effects targeted on you are turned back upon the original caster. The abjuration turns only spells that have you as a target. Effect and area spells are not affected. Spell turning also fails to stop touch range spells."

So no, it doesn't work on any spells other than those which are single target and targeting the archmage himself.

Mastery of Counterspelling: When the archmage counterspells a spell, it is turned back upon the caster as if it were fully affected by a spell turning spell. If the spell cannot be affected by spell turning, then it is merely counterspelled. This ability costs one 7th-level spell slot.

Just a clarification. The first time I read your post Saeviomagy, I thought you had meant that unless the spell is single-target and targeting the archmage the spell wouldn't even be counterspelled. I thought that was a silly thing to say, so I started replying. Seems that indeed it would have been a silly thing to say, but you didn't actually say it. Anyways, this is just posted for ease, I guess.

And yeah... no number of spell-levels limit for Mastery of Counterspelling as there is in Spell Turning.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

There's still no rules basis to enfore the single target. All that matters is that it has "you" as a target - not necessarily the only target.

 

[Felix]

[Fun little exercise in semantics]

Actually one reading would allow turning of single-target spells even if the archmage is not the target.

Checklist

Mastery of Counterspelling:
Was the counterspell successful? Check.
Can the spell be affected by Spell Turning? See next.

Spell Turning:
Does the spell specify individual targets? Check.
Is the spell not-touch range? Check.

Now, a spell like Charm Person can be affected by Spell Turning. This is true. It can.

What Mastery of Counterspelling specifies is that the turning feature does not apply to spells that strictly cannot be affected by Spell Turning, such as Fireball, because it is an area-affect, or Slay Living because it is a touch-spell.

Therefore, because a spell can either "can be affected by Spell Turning" or it "cannot be affected by Spell Turning", it does not matter that a targeted spell does not include the Archmage as a target; the spell can be affected by Spell Turning, and therefore is Turned if the Archmage successfully counterspells.

[/Fun little exercise in semantics]

Hee-hee. It's cute, isn't it?

 

[ThirdWizard]

[/Fun little exercise in semantics]

Hee-hee. It's cute, isn't it?

Erm... that's how I've always read it. People have actually interprieted that the archmage has to be the target??? I havn't read the DMG version in a while, is it different than the SRD text? That might explain it.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

[Fun little exercise in semantics]...
[/Fun little exercise in semantics]

Hee-hee. It's cute, isn't it?

Huh. Interesting. Well done, too.

 

[Felix]

People have actually interprieted that the archmage has to be the target?

I believe that's how Saeviomagy does it, and apparently Patryn of Elvenshae ruled something similar.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I believe that's how Saeviomagy does it, and apparently Patryn of Elvenshae ruled something similar.

Actually, I didn't even look at the ability. I was just responding to the, "The archmage must be targeted, and must be the only target" line of reasoning.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Thanks, Felix, nice writeup.

Erm... that's how I've always read it. People have actually interprieted that the archmage has to be the target??? I havn't read the DMG version in a while, is it different than the SRD text? That might explain it.

What? ThirdWizard and I agree on something? Call the newspaper!

 

[Saeviomagy]

[Fun little exercise in semantics]

Actually one reading would allow turning of single-target spells even if the archmage is not the target.

Of course that reading is incorrect.

Checklist

Mastery of Counterspelling:
Was the counterspell successful? Check.
Can the spell be affected by Spell Turning? See next.

Ok so far.

Spell Turning:
Does the spell specify individual targets? Check.
Is the spell not-touch range? Check.

Oh, would you look at that! Both of these come from the paragraph that states
"Spells and spell-like effects targeted on you are turned back upon the original caster. The abjuration turns only spells that have you as a target. Effect and area spells are not affected. Spell turning also fails to stop touch range spells."

So I guess we also have to do a test for "did the spell target you".

Now, a spell like Charm Person can be affected by Spell Turning. This is true. It can.

What Mastery of Counterspelling specifies is that the turning feature does not apply to spells that strictly cannot be affected by Spell Turning, such as Fireball, because it is an area-affect, or Slay Living because it is a touch-spell.

Or a spell which doesn't target you.

Therefore, because a spell can either "can be affected by Spell Turning" or it "cannot be affected by Spell Turning", it does not matter that a targeted spell does not include the Archmage as a target;

Yes it does. It's written all through the spell description. The spell must target you or you cannot turn it. You don't get to turn spells that hit your buddy and not you.

the spell can be affected by Spell Turning, and therefore is Turned if the Archmage successfully counterspells.

If, of course, it was targeting the archmage in the first place.

[/Fun little exercise in semantics]

Hee-hee. It's cute, isn't it?

And wrong.

Oh, Patryn - you're entirely correct. I was being slightly overzealous in my restriction of what may be turned. Spells which target a bunch of people, along with the archmage can be turned just fine.

Oh, and the "you don't need to roll to see what level can be effected" part is included in the archmage writeup - it states that the spell is fully turned, unless it cannot be turned with spell turning.