coup de grace rules

[D Money1644]

i think my DM has interpretted the coup de grace action incorrectly. the exact text reads "you automatically hit and score a critical hit." i would think that means no attack roll needed, but our DM still requires us to make an attack roll to perform a coup de grace. i've brought this up before and he just ignored it. what do all of you think? thanks.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

There's no attack roll needed.

You automatically hit and score a critical hit. You can't miss because of your attack roll.

 

[D Money1644]

thank you. now i just need to try again to convince my DM.

 

[mvincent]

You are correct. The hit should be automatic. However, if your DM wants to do this, just consider it a house rule and roll with it. His ruling means you can power attack on a CdG (something that shouldn't normally be allowed). Besides, a helpless individual is pretty easy to hit anyway (0 dex means -5 to their flatfooted AC).

 

[Hypersmurf]

... power attack on a CdG (something that shouldn't normally be allowed).

Don't see a problem with it as written, myself

-Hyp.

 

[mvincent]

Don't see a problem with it as written, myself

As written, yes I agree, it could likely be allowed. Should be allowed is another matter to me, and I see a problem with it. YMMV.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

i think my DM has interpretted the coup de grace action incorrectly. the exact text reads "you automatically hit and score a critical hit." i would think that means no attack roll needed, but our DM still requires us to make an attack roll to perform a coup de grace. i've brought this up before and he just ignored it. what do all of you think? thanks.

I'm curious. What part of "automatically hit" means "roll to see if you hit"? You'd think that plain English would be enough, but some people...

 

[IcyCool]

I'm curious. What part of "automatically hit" means "roll to see if you hit"? You'd think that plain English would be enough, but some people...

It is entirely possible that the player is attempting to CDG an invalid target. i.e. Not a helpless foe.

D Money1644, could you explain the situation in which you are trying to CDG?

 

[Kapalen]

My Dm does this too. It makes perfect sense to me because you could always fumble. In situations like this, anyting but 1 hits, but you can ALWAYS fumble. In fact, I usually do in those kinds of situations.

 

[D Money1644]

it's not a matter of invalid circumstances, even though our DM does have rather flexible rules about helpless defenders. it's simply that he has us make an attack roll when performing a coup de grace despite the text "you automatically hit and score a critical hit". i just wanted to get some feedback from other players to see if he's doing it wrong, or if i should stop trying to be a know-it-all. when i brought it up before, he didn't say the way he does it is a house rule, he more or less said i was reading it wrong.