coup de grace too powerful

[RigaMortus]

Aura Seer,
Did you happen to simulate two attackers you were defending against while performing this action?

I bet she didn't!!! And ya know what, since she wasn't simulating being attacked by two attackers then I bet those two attacks would have been able to hit him/her when he/she was trying to CDG that fake head... Hmmmm, sounds a lot like an Attack of Opportunity to me...

 

[RigaMortus]

I cannot see how someone can backup 5 feet and do a full round action and no one has a chance to interrupt that action.

it is called a "Ready" action or an Attack of Opportunity. Only bad party-fighting tactics can be blamed for your death, not bad rules.

 

[IceBear]

Exactly. I could see a house rule to use a concentration check to see if those attacks caused the CdG to fail, but I don't think anything really needs to be done with it.

IceBear

 

[kreynolds]

Here is a good one for you as well...

There is a rule that allows you to do normal damage with an unarmed strike at a -4 penalty to hit (PHB pg 135 under the "Dealing Subdual Damage" heading)... Guess what? I know we went over this before BUT... That -4 penalty to hit doesn't matter since, you guessed it, you get an automatic hit with a CDG.

I thought you couldn't CdG with a weapon that deals subdual damage? Am I thinking of Death Attack?

 

[mikebr99]

But what character is going to spend skill points on concentration if they aren't a spellcaster?

 

[IceBear]

Oh I know that fighter's aren't going to have good concentration skills. I never said I was using that as a house rule, just offerring an opinion on an existing rule that was pretty similar. If he wants to modify it (use Fort Save or something) it's up to him. I don't really have a problem with CdG as is.

IceBear

 

[Dreaddisease]

Oh well. I understand the Full Attack option.

Compared to the other actions that are allowed: Charge, BullRush, Disarm, Trip which can be used effectively in any combat but seem balanced. AoO to balance it out or a -2 to AC with a +2 to hit. These are good tradeoffs. A CDG allows a 5 foot step, a guaranteed hit and double damage with an extreme fort save against one AoO for each creature within 5 feet.

In my opinion CDG works well outside of a normal combat round. I have agreed to the point of being blue in the face about a approaching a held of sleeping person while you are unthreatened, but in a normal combat with multiple attackers and lots of things happening a CDG just seems overpowered. A guaranteed hit (at any level for any creature) does not seem to be concurrent with the d20 system. This is a game of chance, in any case, shouldn't they have to roll? How many times have you been fighting something that is as big as a barn right in front of you with an AC less than your attack bonus and you've rolled a one and missed?

 

[Dreaddisease]

Thanks for the input. I will see if my DM will allow for a house rule on this.

 

[IceBear]

I still think you are a little bitter because of your PC death.

All it would have taken was a PC that was nearby whose initiative was before the demon's to drag you out of the way and you would have been safe. Yeah, if the demon got to go right after you got held, you'd be pretty much screwed unless someone managed to push the demon aside or kill him with the AoO.

Also, I'd have most of my NPCs and monsters focus on opponents that were still active than take the AoO's to kill someone who is out of the fight. Yes, I could see cases where tactically it would make sense to kill someone with CdG rather than take the fight to active opponents (and the above example was one of them), but overall those cases are fewer than the amount of times you'll be helpless, and when they do come up, normally your party members can do something to help you.

IceBear

 

[Grundle]

Lastly the Demon had mirror image up so he had a good chance of not being hit every time.

As to the person who says not to get into a position where you can get in one. Your right, my character should stay home and farm.

It's a bummer to buy the farm like that but...

To save your character's life, all one of your party members had to do was move YOU more than 5 feet away from the demon before the start of it's next turn - can't coup de grace an opponent who is not within melee range for the entire turn.



Points of note:
(1) Unlike CDG, a Full Attack action does NOT take a full round to complete.
(2) An action that takes a full round to complete is not COMPLETE until the start of its initiator's next turn.