coup-de-grace

[whatisitgoodfor]

The other night while playing, two characters started working in a tag-team combo. The wizard casts Hold Monster, and the cleric performs a coup de grace using Inflict Moderate Wounds.

This is, of course, a very devestating combo (uh, make a DC 50 fort save).

However, this is the question that occured to me: "If the inflict/cure spells both require a touch attack to work, and can both score a critical hit, can you perform a coup de grace action with a CLW, effectively doubling its curing power?"

 

[Mark]

Nevermind. I am wrong regarding the use of, or considering touch attacks as weapons.

 

[Caliban]

The other night while playing, two characters started working in a tag-team combo. The wizard casts Hold Monster, and the cleric performs a coup de grace using Inflict Moderate Wounds.

This is, of course, a very devestating combo (uh, make a DC 50 fort save).

However, this is the question that occured to me: "If the inflict/cure spells both require a touch attack to work, and can both score a critical hit, can you perform a coup de grace action with a CLW, effectively doubling its curing power?"

You can only critical or Coup de Grace when doing damage. A cure spell does not do damage (except when being cast on undead).

 

[kreynolds]

From the SRD:

Coup de grace [Full][AoO: Yes]

Description: A combatant can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless foe. A combatant can also use a bow or crossbow, provided the combatant is adjacent to the target. The attacker automatically hits and scores a critical hit. If the target survives the damage, the target must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die.

It's overkill, but a rogue also gets her extra sneak attack damage against a helpless foe when delivering a coup de grace.

A combatant can't deliver a coup de grace against an opponent that is immune to critical hits, such as a golem.


Coup de grace with a CLW? Feel lucky. You got away with it.

 

[Artoomis]

[quiote]A combatant can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless foe. A combatant can also use a bow or crossbow, provided the combatant is adjacent to the target...[/quote]

I don't think you can Coup de Grace without using a weapon (which makes sense, really). I don't think touch attacks count as weapons for this purpose.

So, at least as I see it, it's a moot point since you can't do it at all with spells.

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

Oh, it hasn't happened yet, I'm just wondering if it can.

Since the mechanism for them is the same, I was simply thinking that this might be a little bit more overlap between the two.

I can also rationalize allowing it, since you are effectively pouring positive energy into a more vital area.

 

[kreynolds]

The other night while playing, two characters started working in a tag-team combo. The wizard casts Hold Monster, and the cleric performs a coup de grace using Inflict Moderate Wounds.

This is, of course, a very devestating combo (uh, make a DC 50 fort save).

However, this is the question that occured to me: "If the inflict/cure spells both require a touch attack to work, and can both score a critical hit, can you perform a coup de grace action with a CLW, effectively doubling its curing power?"

Oh, but it has happened, though. Ooops.

 

[Mark]

That was my first impression but after re-reading the PH page 125 description of Touch Spells in Combat, I'm of a mind that they meant to treat them as weapons...

"Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack..."

"The touch spell provides you with a credible threat that the defender is obliged to take into acount just as if it were a weapon."

"Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks...ranged touch attacks..."

"You can score critical hits with either type of attack..."

I edited my previous post because of this.

 

[Artoomis]

This is clearly debatable - and I think it's been debated before. I'm adding it to my list of Problem Rules.

 

[Mark]

This is clearly debatable - and I think it's been debated before. I'm adding it to my list of Problem Rules.

Problem rules that can be solved?