Coup de Gras question.

[ceratitis]

how about a coup de grass with power bong for that extra oomph
Z

 

[MarkB]

how about a coup de grass with power bong for that extra oomph
Z

I believe the only standard D&D weapons that are considered applicable for coup de grass attacks are the sickle and the scythe.

 

[Talic]

SRD(under "helpless defenders" in combat modifiers by the way):

Coup de Grace: As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent. You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target. You automatically hit and score a critical hit. If the defender survives the damage, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. A rogue also gets her extra sneak attack damage against a helpless opponent when delivering a coup de grace.

Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents.

You can’t deliver a coup de grace against a creature that is immune to critical hits. You can deliver a coup de grace against a creature with total concealment, but doing this requires two consecutive full-round actions (one to “find” the creature once you’ve determined what square it’s in, and one to deliver the coup de grace).

Nothing in there says anything about making an attack. Sure it's implied, tho it definately says nothing about an attack roll. By the letter of the rules, I wouldn't allow power attack with it simply because there is no attack roll.

Weather or not it should be allowed despite that...I dunno. I guess thats something each DM would have to deal with.

 

[Hypersmurf]

By the letter of the rules, I wouldn't allow power attack with it simply because there is no attack roll.

Whether there's an attack roll or not is irrelevant. What's at issue is whether the damage you roll is a 'melee damage roll' or not.

The feat doesn't say that you can only add the bonus to damage rolls for which a matching attack roll took a penalty. It says a/ that all melee attack rolls in the round take a penalty, and b/ all melee damage rolls gain a bonus.

You can make five melee attack rolls and no damage rolls (because the attacks miss), and the attack rolls still take a penalty. If an attack roll with no matching damage roll takes the penalty, then why should a damage roll with no attack roll not get the bonus... especially when the feat imposes no such condition?

-Hyp.

 

[RigaMortus2]

It's also like saying, you aren't allowed to use Power Attack if all you do for the round is Move. No attack roll is made, so you can't use Power Attack...

Also, coup de grace doesn't say that you DON'T roll to hit. It states that you automatically hit. So you still can roll the d20. Whether you roll a 1 or 20 is irrelevant though, because the end result is an automatic hit. So there is your qualifying attack roll, if you insist there needs to be one for Power Attack to work.

Also check out the glossary term for automatic hit.

automatic hit: An attack that hits regardless of target AC. Automatic hits occur on an attack roll of a natural 20 or as a result of certain spells. A natural 20 attack roll is also a threat -- a possible critical hit.

According to this, automatic hits occur on an attack roll of a natural 20, or as a result of certain spells. Since CdG is certainly not a spell, it must be considered an "attack roll of a natural 20".

 

[ToddSchumacher]

Thanks to one and all for the responses. Nice to know my players aren't cheating

I brought this up because of an answer Steve Kenson gave on the Muntants and Masterminds rules board. On a whim, just now, I looked at the Power Attack entry in the second edition M&M book. Sure enough, it's different than D&D. There is a line at the end saying you can't use it on effects that require no rolls.

This is kinda the problem I have with the various d20 games. They are similar to D&D, but different enough that it's not always the same, and I always have to second guess myself if the rulings i give are for the game I am currently playing.

Thanks again.

 

[candidus_cogitens]

Pronounce it right!

It's a tangent, but I feel it is my duty ...

It is correctly pronounced KOO duh GRAHS. That's right: the 'p' is silent, but the 's' is not.

 

[RigaMortus2]

It's a tangent, but I feel it is my duty ...

It is correctly pronounced KOO duh GRAHS. That's right: the 'p' is silent, but the 's' is not.

I always thought it was KOO duh GRAH... Hmmm

 

[UltimaGabe]

This is kinda the problem I have with the various d20 games. They are similar to D&D, but different enough that it's not always the same, and I always have to second guess myself if the rulings i give are for the game I am currently playing.

I know what you mean- but I think M&M has a bit of an excuse, since they DON'T use the D20 rules. They made their own rules, and paid for the rights to them, they just happen to be quite similar to the D20 rules. However, I have to give them props, since they're the only D20 game that actually uses... well... the D20!

 

[Christian]

I always thought it was KOO duh GRAH... Hmmm

As spelled in the OP, that's how it would be pronounced. Meaning is then a bit different, of course ...