Coup de Gras question.

[glass]

I know this is slightly off topic but is it OK by the rules to CdG with a damaging touch spell (e.g. shocking grasp)? Personally I would say yes as you count as being armed but what do you guys think?

You count as being armed, but you don't just have to be armed to CdG, you have to use a melee weapon, bow or crossbow.

I don't think a touch spell is a melee weapon (and it certainly isn't a bow or crossbow), so per the RAW the answer is probably no (although I'd allow it in an actual game, probably).


glass.

 

[HeinorNY]

Thinking realistic, it's odd to not let a character use PA with CdG.
But when I start thinking on the rules, if you let a character use PA with CdG, you also gotta let him use Combat Expertise with CdG, and thats sounds pretty strange to me.
All characters with the CE feat automatically get +5 bonus to CA against AoOs when "Coup de Gracing".

 

[cmanos]

coup de grace....litterally "cut of grace". This is what you are looking for.

coup de gras I believe translates into cut of fat....I don't think you want rules for how to perform that....

 

[the Jester]

It only makes sense if PA is an attack by attack option. Would you allow a PC to PA on his first attack, but not on the later ones with lesser bonuses?

Uh, I am not sure I understand the analogy you're drawing. Could you clarify the question please??

 

[3d6]

Thinking realistic, it's odd to not let a character use PA with CdG.
But when I start thinking on the rules, if you let a character use PA with CdG, you also gotta let him use Combat Expertise with CdG, and thats sounds pretty strange to me.
All characters with the CE feat automatically get +5 bonus to CA against AoOs when "Coup de Gracing".

You can't use Combat Expertise with a coup de grace. Combat Expertise must be used with "the attack action or the full attack action in melee", while a coup de grace is simply a full round action.

 

[HeinorNY]

You can't use Combat Expertise with a coup de grace. Combat Expertise must be used with "the attack action or the full attack action in melee", while a coup de grace is simply a full round action.

Exaclty! Thats why you also can't use PA with CdG, it's also an attack action, and CdG requires a full round action, so the character can properly concentrate to perform de CdG.

 

[3d6]

Power Attack isn't an action of any kind. Read the feat again.

 

[ElectricDragon]

Actually, the wording for PA only states "On your action, before making attack rolls for the round"; so attacking is not required in order to use PA, just declaring before any are rolled. "I Power Attack for 3 and cast magic missile." This means if you gain any AoO later in the round, you take a -3 to attacks and +3 to damage (assuming a hand free to cast the spell and a one handed weapon).

Ciao
Dave

 

[Magesmiley]

I'll throw an interesting tangent into the power attack for melee attacks which don't require a hit roll... what about damaging your opponent during a grapple?

POWER ATTACK [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Str 13.
Benefit: On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.
Special: If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls. You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies. (Normally, you treat a double weapon as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon.)
A fighter may select Power Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Damage Your Opponent: While grappling, you can deal damage to your opponent equivalent to an unarmed strike. Make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. If you win, you deal nonlethal damage as normal for your unarmed strike (1d3 points for Medium attackers or 1d2 points for Small attackers, plus Strength modifiers). If you want to deal lethal damage, you take a –4 penalty on your grapple check.
Exception: Monks deal more damage on an unarmed strike than other characters, and the damage is lethal. However, they can choose to deal their damage as nonlethal damage when grappling without taking the usual –4 penalty for changing lethal damage to nonlethal damage.

Unarmed Attacks: Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following:
Attacks of Opportunity: Attacking unarmed provokes an attack of opportunity from the character you attack, provided she is armed. The attack of opportunity comes before your attack. An unarmed attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from other foes nor does it provoke an attack of opportunity from an unarmed foe.
An unarmed character can’t take attacks of opportunity (but see “Armed” Unarmed Attacks, below).
“Armed” Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character’s or creature’s unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed.
Note that being armed counts for both offense and defense (the character can make attacks of opportunity)
Unarmed Strike Damage: An unarmed strike from a Medium character deals 1d3 points of damage (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). A Small character’s unarmed strike deals 1d2 points of damage, while a Large character’s unarmed strike deals 1d4 points of damage. All damage from unarmed strikes is nonlethal damage. Unarmed strikes count as light weapons (for purposes of two-weapon attack penalties and so on).
Dealing Lethal Damage: You can specify that your unarmed strike will deal lethal damage before you make your attack roll, but you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. If you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you can deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike without taking a penalty on the attack roll.

Strictly speaking, damaging your opponent while grappling requires a grapple check rather than an attack roll. Power attack definitely applies to unarmed strikes...

One could conceivably take their full bab penalty to attack rolls on a round when they are grappling and choose to damage their opponent, netting the damage bonus without any penalty on the grapple check - power attack's penalty only applies to attack rolls.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Strictly speaking, damaging your opponent while grappling requires a grapple check rather than an attack roll. Power attack definitely applies to unarmed strikes...

Let's hypothesise a feat, 'Throw Fists'. As a standard action, make a ranged attack roll against a single opponent within 30 feet; if successful, you deal damage as normal for your unarmed strike.

Is this damage considered a 'melee damage roll'?

-Hyp.