Coupe de Grace: auto hit?

[Kordeth]

Yep. That's how I read it too. Auto hit. No roll needed.

Nope. The reason there's no "Attack vs Defense" line is because of this sentence right here:

You can deliver a coup de grace against a helpless enemy adjacent to you. Use any attack power you could normally use against the enemy, including a basic attack.

Coup de Grace is a rider applied to any other attack power. You still have to hit with that power, and if you do, you score a critical hit automatically.

 

[Nebulous]

Without more clarification, i'm also leaning toward "auto-critical hit", no roll required. In 3.x though it was a full round action that provoked an attack, making it a little harder to pull off. Here, it's easy.

 

[Surgoshan]

I'm thinking the reason "helpless" has a -5 to defenses is because you can be rendered helpless during combat, when people attacking you don't necessarily have time to set up a perfect, deadly attack.

In the case of the sleeping giant, there's nothing to distract the PCs, so the attacks hit. And they wake the giant up, eliminating the helpless condition, but leaving him prone.

 

[hamishspence]

Natural armour AC

Natural armour gives an AC bonus: you basically do not get through the thick layers of skin. Being helpless wouldn't change that (nor would it change presence of normal armour. Just say to player: Your swinging sword rebounds from the monsters tough skin/heavy armour.

Its not that implausible that a blow against a prone monster wouldn't actually get through its protection, even if it is not active.

 

[Kordeth]

I'm thinking the reason "helpless" has a -5 to defenses is because you can be rendered helpless during combat, when people attacking you don't necessarily have time to set up a perfect, deadly attack.

In the case of the sleeping giant, there's nothing to distract the PCs, so the attacks hit. And they wake the giant up, eliminating the helpless condition, but leaving him prone.

A coup de grace is a standard action. If you have enough time to attack a helpless foe with an attack power, you have enough time to coup de grace him.

Once again, the description of coup de grace says "use any attack power," and adds the "Hit: You score a critical hit" line to it. You still have to actually hit to get that hit rider.

 

[Nebulous]

I think the problem from 3e is still around: what happens when you try to coup de grace a full hit point fighter who is asleep? You'll just make him mad. One crit isn't going to do enough to kill him.

 

[hamishspence]

coup de grace

its annoying. On the plus side, DM can't say "while you were asleep, stealthy assassin puts a knife into your heart." You always have opportunity to wake up and fight.

 

[WalterKovacs]

You can only Coup the Grace a helpless foe adjacent to you. If you were, however, to fireball an area that had a helpless foe IN it ... you need to factor in the -5 to defenses, etc. Any attack not made adjacent to a helpless character requires a roll.

 

[Nikosandros]

A funny thought occurred to me...

When you are unconscious, you get -5 to all your defenses, but you still get AC and reflex bonus from high dex/int and from a shield.

 

[Mort_Q]

A funny thought occurred to me...

When you are unconscious, you get -5 to all your defenses, but you still get AC and reflex bonus from high dex/int and from a shield.

True. Weird, but true.