Cover and Concealment

[dreadon]

Ok I ran into a problem last week running my 4e group. The party was fighting in a dim lit dungeon that granted 2 points of concealment. When one of the players ran behind some cover. The question was does the character get just -2 points for concealment and no fearther bonuses; or get a -4 from both or does it become -5 to attackers as if he had superior cover or total concealment. The rules dont clearly spell out what bonuses stack and how cover and concealment works.

 

[On Puget Sound]

The rules seem to be silent on whther the two conditions stack; since they are not penalties with the same "type", they should probably stack. In a fight in the sunshine, being behind a rock is safer. In a fight in a fog, being behind a rock is still safer.

Be careful not to award cover and concealment bonuses for the same cause, though. Yes, crouching behind an overturned table does mean there is less of you to see, but it's more appropriate to call that cover. A stealth check while behind the table might grant concealment too.

 

[senorcoo]

I'll be granting these on an either or basis, not that I envision it coming up to often.

 

[Ravingdork]

Um...penalties always stack. If your target has cover AND concealment, you suffer a -4 penalty to hit said target.

 

[Rick Danger]

The rules seem to be silent on whther the two conditions stack; since they are not penalties with the same "type", they should probably stack.

The PHB generally explains on page 275 that "Unlike bonuses, penalties don't have types. Penalties add together, unless they're from the same power."

 

[webrunner]

It is worth noting that Cover and Concealment are unique in that most penalties of this type simply grant Combat Advantage, which doesn't stack with itself.

Edit: Actually reading it.. I got confused.. combat advantage is for attacking, concealment and cover are defending. OOps.

Interestingly...
Total Concealment happens when you can't see the target, that grants -5 to attack rolls. When you are totally concealled, and cant be seen, then you also have combat advantage, which means you also get +2 to attack rolls. Being totally concealled has a lot of bonuses!

 

[tweinst]

Just remember that you have to be able to see the target to get combat advantage. This eliminates the weird case of firing blindly into a thicket and getting sneak attack damage.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

Be careful not to award cover and concealment bonuses for the same cause, though. Yes, crouching behind an overturned table does mean there is less of you to see, but it's more appropriate to call that cover. A stealth check while behind the table might grant concealment too.

This. I think they stack but you have to be very very careful not to double count. Generally, I'd say that whatever provides cover cannot also provide concealment and vice versa. So stacky situations would include being behind a tree (cover) and layers of leaves (concealment), behind crenelations of a battlement (cover) in the fog (concealment).

 

[dreadon]

Ok i was trying to justify the -4 to hit with the both cover and concealment vs the -5 if you can't see the target at all. But if you are hiding behind a table and you are cloacked in shadows that would problely be as hard to hit as if you were invisable.