Covers Preview for Elemental Evil Adventurer's Handbook and Princes of the Apocalypse!

So, it's official now. The Elder Elemental Eye has been somehow released from The World of Greyhawk to unleash havoc in the Realms. No fantasy world was described in more detail than the Forgotten Realms, and they still manage to produce not one, but two storylines in a row with themes and antagonists that have nothing to do with the Realms. Good job, Wizards.

 

[Derren]

Sounds like someone was flipping through the 2nd edition Cult of the Dragon supplement and saw that Tiamat had an interest in the Cult and went from there.

I think there is more than that.
After 4E WotC tries to play it as save as possible. That includes:

• FR as single and only setting. No splitting the playerbase and as FR is still the most well known setting (and sells the most books) it is the default.
• A "No Retcon" retcon. People disliked 4E FR, but people also dislike retcons. So there will be no retcon, but everything will still be like it was previously.
• When in doubt, be quiet. Instead of detailing what happens which inadvertently angers some fans, say nothing about lore to keep everyone in suspense.
• Dragons sell, so put in more dragons. During 3E WotC posted somewhere that according to their research books about dragons sell better than others, so for the start of 5E they needed a dragon adventure.
• Use what works. Instead of inventing new story arcs which might or might not be good they simply steal proven arcs from other settings to use.

 

[HobbitFan]

I think you're right Derren. That reading of the situation makes sense with what WOTC has said and done.

Except for the Sundering....which doesn't quite fit that model. But there the disconnect might be due to PR hyperbole. But then there were comments Ed and Bob made that the Realms were going to be fixed, that they felt like the 80s Realms again and that fans had reason to look forward to what's coming....What were they talking about then?

I don't know how I feel about the whole mess anymore. The 5E rulebooks have me excited about D&D again like I haven't been in years.

But the silence about all the Campaign Settings coupled with their abysmal 4E track record gives me pause. I don't know if I trust WOTC anymore with creative stewardship of the IP they got from TSR.

 

[dracomilan]

Tiamat was a minor power that few outside of the Old Empires even knew about.

Sounds like someone was flipping through the 2nd edition Cult of the Dragon supplement and saw that Tiamat had an interest in the Cult and went from there.

Out of all the villains and gods out there, they could have chosen something a bit more popular and frankly a bit more interesting.

I bet it was Chris Perkins. [emoji1]
And I do not find it a bad thing.

Anyway, after a big epic high fantasy storyarc I would have preferred a Birthright-styled gritty military storyarc instead of another epic.

 

[Staffan]

Except for the Sundering....which doesn't quite fit that model. But there the disconnect might be due to PR hyperbole. But then there were comments Ed and Bob made that the Realms were going to be fixed, that they felt like the 80s Realms again and that fans had reason to look forward to what's coming....What were they talking about then?

As I understand it, the Realms will be moving forward in time, but to a time that looks a lot more like "classic" FR. All the 4e stuff will still have happened, but it's all in the past now.

 

[Sailor Moon]

As I understand it, the Realms will be moving forward in time, but to a time that looks a lot more like "classic" FR. All the 4e stuff will still have happened, but it's all in the past now.

Well if these first few modules are a reflection of the new Realms then that classic look won't be happening.

 

[Derren]

Except for the Sundering....which doesn't quite fit that model. But there the disconnect might be due to PR hyperbole. But then there were comments Ed and Bob made that the Realms were going to be fixed, that they felt like the 80s Realms again and that fans had reason to look forward to what's coming....What were they talking about then?

I think it fits perfectly. The 4E FR was a huge flop compared to previous editions as many people disliked the Spellplague changes and the time shift. On the other hand, some people like the new additions, at least some of it, and if FR is to become the default setting they can't undo everything (dragonborn). Besides, a retcon is always bad for the continuity and you will have ha hard time explaining to people which came with 4E why the setting goes backwards.
What the Sundering does, at least according to what we have been told, is that the timeline moves forward but the setting itself resembles what people have known from 2E/3E as all changes perceived as unpopular by WotC (most 4E stuff) are undone and all things popular, again in WotC eyes, are brought back. The only exceptions are those things in 4E which are generally liked (can't think of any at the moment) and things which need to stay in order to be the default setting.

But pulling this off well is very tricky. Thats why WotC does not release specifics. Better to keep everyone hoping that it will be good, no matter how they complain about the lack of information, than giving them informations and have many people turn away when they see that it won't be what they expect.

 

[Shemeska]

What reasoning?

You have a goddess that was never trapped but suddenly is.

It's worth noting that when asked specifically about Tiamat being trapped in the 9 Hells, Kobold admits that it is a continuity error with no precedent in previous lore on Tiamat, but that this setup was part of the baseline material given to them by WotC and being contracted out to write the module based on those guidelines they were in no position to contradict it.

 

[DEFCON 1]

What the Sundering does, at least according to what we have been told, is that the timeline moves forward but the setting itself resembles what people have known from 2E/3E as all changes perceived as unpopular by WotC (most 4E stuff) are undone and all things popular, again in WotC eyes, are brought back. The only exceptions are those things in 4E which are generally liked (can't think of any at the moment) and things which need to stay in order to be the default setting.

I think we might even strike some 3E stuff from the world too, not just 4E stuff. From what I heard in interviews from Salvatore, what the Sundering did was have Ao reform the Tablets of Fate... and thus put all the gods back into set portfolios. Thus, the "Wild Wild West" of the Time of Troubles and on... all the gods fighting over worshippers and scraps of the divine pie... comes to an end. With Ao putting all the gods back into tight little boxes like they were in 2E ("You get what you get and you don't get upset, kiddies!")... the gods apparently are now supposed to be more distant and no longer running rampant across Faerun mucking things up. Instead, it's up to all the mortals to muck things up instead.

So what it seems it basically comes down to is all the parts of Returned Abeir that showed up in 4E go away as the two worlds re-split again (although some stuff that came into Faerun via the merge but then moved away from those Returned sections will still remain on the planet-- they don't just magically *poof* away like the Returned zones do)... and anything related to the gods running roughshod over the world (Time of Troubles on) gets buttoned up. All those plots and stories still occurred... they just won't continue to occur in the future.

That seems to be what I've interpreted from the talks I've heard about what the Sundering was meant to accomplish.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Likewise, Mystara would have the other immortals (especially Ka) stomp the excrement out of Takhisis' attempt to destroy the status quo right before the ending. So, the overall storyline would not work nearly so well on Mystara, because the obvious end is going to unite most of the Mystaran Immortals against whichever upstart decides to go manifesting willy-nilly...

This is likewise the problem with setting the adventure in FR. There is no reason for the "climactic battle" at the end to ever happen as written. You could have come up with a reason why it had to be these four individuals, specifically, who fight Tiamat (it turns out that her summoning is inevitable and unstoppable no matter what you do--eliminating ritual components merely weakens her), but the way the adventure has actually been written simply begs for the good guys to detach one or more metallic dragons from the battle outside and take them with them as a force multiplier. Even moreso it is incomprehensible why Elminster and the Simbul et al. don't show up to the battle to curb-stomp Tiamat with you. Rise of Tiamat would make a decent adventure in a world where there aren't any good-aligned NPCs over level 5, but in the FR the plot is simply bizarre.

 

[Lord_Blacksteel]

As far as the setting for the Elemental Evil run, yes we know we can run them in any setting. The annoyance is in what setting WOTC chooses to support with their published adventures. If they were set in Greyhawk it would show they were committed to supporting other settings and would probably generate some buzz with the first GH product in a decade or so - the "original D&D world" etc. This is the perfect theme to use for that return. Placing it in the Realms doesn't render it unplayable in Greyhawk (or anywhere else), it's just a clear sign that we're not going to see a Greyhawk revival in the immediate future. I suspect the constant references to various settings in the rulebooks got a lot of us excited, thinking we would see more concrete support for them in the future. We still might, but it's clearly not the _near_ future.

I am less concerned where this AP is set than the quality of adventure.

After the disappointment of the two dragon adventures, I have to agree.