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Craft (poison) or "It takes HOW long???"
- Thread starter DWARF
- Start date
Tzarevitch
First Post
Conaill said:
The problem is that the time it takes to make something is not necessarily related to the item's finished cost. A very simple object that has high value for the material alone in 3e can actually take longer to make than a very complicated object made of simple materials. The example that I used is the gold ball and the lock.
Crafting the golden ball should take a lot less time but frequently it doesn't under the craft rules. The rules are locked into a formula that finished cost is directly related to construction time and that is not always true, expecially involving items that are valuable for their matierials as opposed to items made of common materials that are valuable for their craftsmenship alone.
Tzarevitch
One small but significant nit pick....
According to the Song and Silence I have, it states that you figure out how long it takes by the GP value of the Posion and not the SP value.
So taking a 10 with your character listed to make greenblood oil:
22 x 13 = 286 gp or almost three doses of poison.
Of course, I have yet to see a decent reason why a PC would want to use a poison anyway. The seem very expesive for marginal reduction in opponents power.
-The Luddite
According to the Song and Silence I have, it states that you figure out how long it takes by the GP value of the Posion and not the SP value.
So taking a 10 with your character listed to make greenblood oil:
22 x 13 = 286 gp or almost three doses of poison.
Of course, I have yet to see a decent reason why a PC would want to use a poison anyway. The seem very expesive for marginal reduction in opponents power.
-The Luddite
One house rule I use is to base the time on the raw material price instead of the final price. That way its takes a third to a sixth long a time.
Then I usualy make exceptions for things that would obviously take more or less time.
A really good rule I saw (I think it was Caliban or Crothian who posted it) was to simply allow the crafter to raise the DC as much as he wants, so he can finish it faster. That way a really good crafter can finish MUCH faster than an okay one, which makes sense.
Then I usualy make exceptions for things that would obviously take more or less time.
A really good rule I saw (I think it was Caliban or Crothian who posted it) was to simply allow the crafter to raise the DC as much as he wants, so he can finish it faster. That way a really good crafter can finish MUCH faster than an okay one, which makes sense.
When I'm calculating the price for Crafting, I take the final market price, and subtract the cost for raw materials. (Usually that's half the cost, except for precious metals or other special materials.) This seems to work pretty well.
When you're making an iron lock, most of the cost comes from the required workmanship, and that's why it takes a long time to construct. A simple gold sphere is very simple to construct, so its market price is barely higher than the price of just the raw gold.
When you're making an iron lock, most of the cost comes from the required workmanship, and that's why it takes a long time to construct. A simple gold sphere is very simple to construct, so its market price is barely higher than the price of just the raw gold.
Last edited:
Shard O'Glase
First Post
AuraSeer said:
Yoink, that house rule is now officially stolen.
But by the rules if you really want the poison fast, do as the good Dr. said and bust out a fabricate spell.
As far as I know, the cost for special materials does NOT affect the time to craft. So a gold sphere would take just as long to craft as a wooden one.
The exceptions to this are stuff like Mithral or Adamantine, where the items crafted are considered MW with regard to creation times. But even there, you don't actually count the market price modifier for the special material into the craft calculation.
For example: Adamantine Heavy Armor has a +10,000 gp market price modifier. But for crafting time, you just only add the time it would take to make such an item Masterwork.
The exceptions to this are stuff like Mithral or Adamantine, where the items crafted are considered MW with regard to creation times. But even there, you don't actually count the market price modifier for the special material into the craft calculation.
For example: Adamantine Heavy Armor has a +10,000 gp market price modifier. But for crafting time, you just only add the time it would take to make such an item Masterwork.
Umbran said:The difference is magic.In a normal fantasy world, magic works a lot faster than chemistry. Plus, while you may have taken some chemistry, you've got a couple bad assumptions.
Let's also ask ourselves: Why do we buy alcohol instead of making it in our backyards? I also understand gunpowder and (some street drug) is easy to make -- why isn't everyone making it?
Besides the laws of chemistry, the societal mores against poison should make it more difficult to create poison. This can be anything from finding NPC contacts to supply equipment and solvents, to securing permits from local officials, to making appropriate bribes to the Assassin's Guild, who happens to have an interest in this sort of thing. And if the players are headquartered far from the city, they still have to wait for their contacts to get them the appropriate equipment.
Of course, this should be seen as an opportunity, not an obstacle. If a player wishes to create poison, the GM should make an adventure around it. Perhaps the Assassin's Guild will supply the additional ingredients, but they have a little job that needs to be done...
And, of course, in a world where magic is everyday, our physical laws don't apply. That may include chemistry as well.
Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^
dead_radish
Explorer
One note - most of these arguments revolve around poison.
Substitute any normal item for poison, and this becomes silly again.
A month to make a single longsword, at 8 hours a day?
How many longswords can you buy in a shop?
I've spoken to modern day smiths about this - they can do this in far less time, and they don't spend 8 hours a day, every day, working on things.
If it truly takes over a month to make a single masterwork weapon, how on earth do you equip an army with fine weaponry? 10,000 troops would take 100 smiths 10 years to equip! If that's _all_ they did.
Craft rules in 3e are just hosed. I dunno how to fix them - we typically just set a reasonable time and DC, and go from there (IE: It'll take 3 days to make that sword, and it's DC 28 to make. If you fail by 5 or less, it's 2 days more. If you succeed by 5 or more, it's better, or faster).
Substitute any normal item for poison, and this becomes silly again.
A month to make a single longsword, at 8 hours a day?
How many longswords can you buy in a shop?
I've spoken to modern day smiths about this - they can do this in far less time, and they don't spend 8 hours a day, every day, working on things.
If it truly takes over a month to make a single masterwork weapon, how on earth do you equip an army with fine weaponry? 10,000 troops would take 100 smiths 10 years to equip! If that's _all_ they did.
Craft rules in 3e are just hosed. I dunno how to fix them - we typically just set a reasonable time and DC, and go from there (IE: It'll take 3 days to make that sword, and it's DC 28 to make. If you fail by 5 or less, it's 2 days more. If you succeed by 5 or more, it's better, or faster).
