Craft (poison) or "It takes HOW long???"

[nharwell]

In my campaign, I've simply based creation times on the item's value in Gold rather than Silver -- that has worked quite well, is generally more "realistic" (if that term has ANY meaning in D&D), and, most importantly, is more fun.

 

[Skaros]

One note - most of these arguments revolve around poison.

Substitute any normal item for poison, and this becomes silly again.

A month to make a single longsword, at 8 hours a day?

How many longswords can you buy in a shop?

I've spoken to modern day smiths about this - they can do this in far less time, and they don't spend 8 hours a day, every day, working on things.

If it truly takes over a month to make a single masterwork weapon, how on earth do you equip an army with fine weaponry? 10,000 troops would take 100 smiths 10 years to equip! If that's _all_ they did.

Craft rules in 3e are just hosed. I dunno how to fix them - we typically just set a reasonable time and DC, and go from there (IE: It'll take 3 days to make that sword, and it's DC 28 to make. If you fail by 5 or less, it's 2 days more. If you succeed by 5 or more, it's better, or faster).

Does it? I'm not so sure.

For one thing, I don't think that any army would ever be outfitted with masterwork weaponry. Aren't masterwork items SUPPOSED to take a little effort? If smiths could make "masterwork" swords in a few days, well, why would anyone make regular swords?

If you have to outfit an army in a hurry, isn't that where you usually start cutting corners and making substandard weaponry because of the short timeframe? I'd say so.

Asking a modern day sword smith how long it takes them is valuable. Then ask him how long it would take to make a weapon he considers his masterwork...a gem among swords. One that makes other swords of the same size and mold pale in comparison. How many throw-aways would be involved in that, would you guess?

Now ask him what if he had to make the same masterwork sword a few hundred years ago, where metals aren't as easily purified, etc, etc.

Might get different answers....the answers would still probably be very different than the D&D rules allow for, but how different?

-Skaros

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Every place that I've seen Craft DC's listed for poisons has also included the gp-instead-of-sp rule, but it's very possible that I've spaced something.

I should note at this point that the Book of Vile Darkness includes rules identical to Song and Silence, except that it adds the (incredibly sensible) provision that you can also use Alchemy skill, albeit at a penalty (reasonable enough, since it's a less specialized skill).

 

[Dr_Rictus]

And by the way, when figuring out Craft skill bonuses for characters of various sorts, keep in mind that anyone doing much crafting of expensive items is going to have masterwork artisan's tools (+2 circumstance bonus).

 

[Umbran]

If it truly takes over a month to make a single masterwork weapon, how on earth do you equip an army with fine weaponry?

Simple answer - you don't.

Really, you don't. Masterwork weapons are not what a common solidier is supposed to have. They aren't supposed to be mass-produced. Masterwork items are the best of the best, the end-all, be all of swords short of magic. The best of the best does not come off an assembly line.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

For one thing, I don't think that any army would ever be outfitted with masterwork weaponry.

Heck, you don't even outfit an army with swords. Spears are good enough for the vast majority of 'em.

 

[AuraSeer]

Masterwork weapons are not what a common solidier is supposed to have. They aren't supposed to be mass-produced. Masterwork items are the best of the best, the end-all, be all of swords short of magic. The best of the best does not come off an assembly line.

Exactly! There's a line that comes up in a lot of war movies: "Never forget that your weapon was made by the lowest bidder."

A footsoldier doesn't get a 300-gp masterwork Toledo Salamanca, because who can afford to buy thousands of those? Your average grunt gets a cheapo 15-gp pig-sticker, probably with crummy balance and ugly hammer marks-- unless his country has money troubles, in which case he gets a longspear (a.ka. a sharpened stick). Either way, it's still heavy and dangerous and will hurt if it gets poked into your chest.

[Edited 'cuz I hit Post too soon.]