Craft/Profession

[GnomeWorks]

Good. Now start killing things.

So are you going to start killing things?

I see what you did there.

Indeed.

NO WAI!

 

[hong]

I see what you did there.

So, are you going to start killing things?

NO WAI!

The owl did this better than you.

 

[FireLance]

Your problem, then, is not the concept of crafting, but the implementation in 3.5.

So better implementation would improve the odds of it being used, because it would be a better subsystem.

As mentioned, we did find a use for putting ranks in Craft and Profession. What we did not do was find a way to make Craft and Profession checks a significant part of adventuring.

It goes back to the mini-game issue you mentioned. It might be an interesting diversion, but it is not core to most standard D&D games. In fact, on the subject of missing rule sub-systems, I would find mass combat rules or rules for running a business/organization/country to be more useful than a sub-system for Craft and Profession.

 

[hong]

And the degree to which combat shows up in-game isn't contrived?

Not in a game about killing monsters and taking their stuff, no. It's like how people never seem particularly bothered about how Indiana Jones always seems to be fighting Nazis, evil cultists, commies, and whatnot, despite being a tenured professor.

The page count should be relative, in that case, sure. But something should be said somewhere in the core about it.

And it is. It just happens not to be said in a way that pleases those who believes elves are real.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

So better implementation would improve the odds of it being used, because it would be a better subsystem.

I disagree. No amount of rules could make crafting interesting. It's just not why I play the game.

Same reason I have tried, and gotten bored quickly with the crafting rules in Everquest, Everquest 2, Dark Age of Camelot, Neverwinter Nights, Neverwinter Nights 2, World of Warcraft, and City of Heroes. Most of them spent a lot of time to try and make crafting fun. Some even made patches in order to completely overhaul crafting and I played them before AND after the overhaul.

I don't want to be the guy who makes stuff for other people. I may be the glory hog, but I want to be the hero everyone cheers to for saving their lives, not the guy in the back of the room handing out drinks. It's not about the mechanics, it's about the prestige that goes with it.

 

[GnomeWorks]

Yes, that's what they say too.

I'm glad we got that cleared up, then.

If you are fighting commoners, you are doing it wrong. Compare 1st level fighter to 1st level goblin skirmisher or 1st level human guard. You know, like in every D&D edition ever.

PCs are still better than anyone else, right out of the gate, which is the point that was being made.

So, when did you start believing elves are real?

When you admitted that 4e is craptastic.

 

[hong]

I'm glad we got that cleared up, then.

Yes, they always say that too.

PCs are still better than anyone else, right out of the gate, which is the point that was being made.

Which is still no different to every edition of D&D ever.

When you admitted that 4e is craptastic.

Hm, that's not something that they always say.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Truth hurts, don't it.
Compare first-level fighter to commoner in 4e. Might as well be a deity.

Maybe it is because I was raised as a Christian before I became atheist, or you have played to much Exalted, but _deities_ look, act and feel different very different to me. (I could go on and say that there is a similarity - neither the 4E 1st level fighter nor deities exist, but this will just break board policies...)

 

[FireLance]

And the degree to which combat shows up in-game isn't contrived?

Perhaps, but it doesn't feel contrived. I think it's a genre thing. We've come to expect that the PCs need to fight to defeat the Monster of the Week, or the Evil Plot du jour. Perhaps if we were playing Bob the Builder the RPG, it won't seem odd that things keep breaking and we need to keep repairing them all the time.

The page count should be relative, in that case, sure. But something should be said somewhere in the core about it.

See my post above about sub-systems I would rather have instead.

 

[GnomeWorks]

So, are you going to start killing things?

If you have a point, go ahead and assume I answer this in whatever fashion helps you make your point, so we can move on.

The owl did this better than you.

Or... did he?