Craft/Profession

GnomeWorks said:
Multiple books. Compartmentalize the system. At that point, it'd be modular, and there'd be no reason not to.
This doesn't work out well in a commercial sense. When the "Book of Crafting and Brewing" ends up selling 1000 copies and the "Book of Cool Killing Powers" ends up selling 30,000 copies, and the first book doesn't make enough money to break even...well, then it isn't worth publishing.

GnomeWorks said:
The PCs are special snowflakes only insofar as they are controlled by players and not the DM. They do not stand out in the world, unless they are of significant enough power to warrant such.
GnomeWorks said:
Protagonization is lame.
1. The reason I run the game is because of the players.
2. My players like to stand out in the world, it makes them happy.
3. My players get to be the protagonists.

GnomeWorks said:
That sounds like treating the PCs like special snowflakes.
My favorite part of the game is being a special snowflake when I play. I would hope my DM treated me this way.
 

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Majoru Oakheart said:
And if I had no other choice but to have crafting skills in the game, this is the option I'd take. I'd likely just allow every character to choose one background profession and give them rolls if that activity should ever come up in game as if they were trained. Although, I expect the activities to come up never whether I give them the option to choose or not.

That's the sort of situation I want to avoid, though: if you don't want to deal with it, then - at least in D&D - you shouldn't have to.

Then you have an incorrect understanding. It's always been referring to feeling the need to complete something that doesn't need to be completed. Like "We need an Martial Controller...or the table won't be complete!" or "We need Smoke Elementals, because EVERY elemental plane needs a type of elemental."

...and yet you have no issue with classes being shoehorned into one of four roles. Ahuh.

Each about 2 or 3 more times often than anyone has made a craft check.n In that I've used each of them about 2 or 3 times. And no one has ever made a craft check.

Bad examples, then. I'm sure you can think of at least a few monsters which you haven't used.

Only one attack button in Gauntlet. I like more variety in my killing things and taking their stuff. Plus, I think the Red Wizard is bulimic, he always seems to need food badly.

Win.

Yep, that's what the NPCs are for...to make the alcohol for the PCs to drink and making the weapons for the PCs to buy. The PCs do heroic stuff.

The PCs don't have to be all heroic, all the time. They can do other things, you know.

When it is important to the story if you can spot the monsters you are following before they get out of sight.

...I'll be honest, I don't even remember what the point of what you're responding to was.

It does when I make up a character good at combat only to sit down and play a game based on basketweaving. I would like the game to focus on one thing that it does really well so all players and the DM have similar expectations about the game.

Why do I have to sleep through an entire session of basketweaving while another player sleeps through a session of combat when I could have 2 games: one on basketweaving and one on combat and I can play the basketweaving one if I like basketweaving and the combat one if I like combat. Therefore, I know that I'll have like minded players sitting at the table with me when I play my game. Then no one at the table has to sleep through sessions.

One-dimensional characters, who have but one shtick? Are you sure you don't want to be playing Gauntlet?

Damn...and I just applied for a position searching through books for errata. Now my editing skills are in question.

Heh. :p

Not when I'm forced to sit around and watch racing for 4 hours when I don't like it. I'd prefer to find a bunch of people who like hockey and watch it with them once a week rather than being forced to watch tennis one week, soccer the next, racing the next, in order to be able to watch hockey the week after that.

I don't think it would have to be that way.

Heh, not sure you'd like my games. I know I had one player request to have an NPC craft a magic item for him and the entire campaign was over in 2 weeks of game time after that. The item took 3 weeks to craft. They had gained 5 levels in those 2 weeks and the item wasn't even useful for him anymore.

Plus, I never said I wouldn't allow the activities. I just like to keep them behind the scenes and out of the way. I don't have a problem with a 30 second long "forging montage" in my Conan movie, but it better not have 30 minutes of watching Conan shape the hilt.

You want to make a sword? Sure, you can do that. It costs about the same as a sword from the book in materials and takes a couple of days to finish. Unless you want to buy one for the same price from the store. They have one right away.

D&D crafting, as it stands in 3.5, sucks anyway, so it's not that big a loss.

Yeah, but fighting an athach is heroic, exciting, dramatic, prestigious, and so on. Having one in the book gives my players surprise and suspense if they've never seen it as they try to figure out what powers it might have or what it might do next.

And reforging Narsil wasn't a heroic, exciting, dramatic, prestigious, and so on, thing? Or could have been made that way, at least?
 

hong said:
Feel free to launch a crusade about it in your sig.

I believe I already declined.

Because I am concerned for your wellbeing in the way that you seem not to be having fun. Aren't you lucky?

I have fun in my own fashion. Not everyone plays the game for the same reasons you do, hong.

Of course.

I would never have thought that canoes and bread went together.

Feel free to launch a crusade about this in your sig as well.

That may be a cause worth sigging about.

Feel free to build your own RPG where you will expand and expound on the rules for baking bread.

Perhaps I have already done so.

Dun dun DUN!
 

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
When do I need Craft or Profession Skills for a treasure hunt?

Or are they there to create a possible anticlimax?
"Wow, now that you have found all these parts for a great weapon, make your Craft Weapon Smithing roll" "Dang! A natural 2! Does a 19 suffice?" "Nope." "Ah well, all those adventuring for nothing..."

It makes it more interesting, at the least.
 

GnomeWorks said:
And reforging Narsil wasn't a heroic, exciting, dramatic, prestigious, and so on, thing? Or could have been made that way, at least?
But the problem is - and this is my point - it doesn't happen often enough in most campaigns to have complex rules for it. And even in the book, (IIRC) it took place mostly off-screen and wasn't done by any of the protagonists.
 

GnomeWorks said:
I believe I already declined.

Yes, you say that now.

I have fun in my own fashion. Not everyone plays the game for the same reasons you do, hong.

So, are you having fun yet?

I would never have thought that canoes and bread went together.

Of course.

That may be a cause worth sigging about.

Well, as long as you're having fun.

Perhaps I have already done so.

Dun dun DUN!

So does this mean you'll stop whinging?
 

hong said:
Yes, you say that now.

I just did, yes.

So, are you having fun yet?

Sure.

So does this mean you'll stop whinging?

Psst. You've got a typo there.

I am not whining. I perceive this topic as a flaw in 4e, as one amongst many. There is nothing wrong with me expressing my opinion, and you are free to ignore me rather than respond to things I say. If you really feel I'm whining, then go ahead and put me on your ignore list.
 

FireLance said:
But the problem is - and this is my point - it doesn't happen often enough in most campaigns to have complex rules for it. And even in the book, (IIRC) it took place mostly off-screen and wasn't done by any of the protagonists.

Rod of seven parts just doesn't go together, you have to weld it together.

I imagine that there are a lot of opportunities for various mundane skills to have more extraordinary applications. We all have difficulties imagining them because, for the most part, we've been trained that these things take place off-screen or are performed by the supporting cast.

They don't have to be, though.
 

GnomeWorks said:
I just did, yes.

Give it 6 months.


Indeed.

Psst. You've got a typo there.

Okay, now this is getting funny.

I am not whining. I perceive this topic as a flaw in 4e, as one amongst many.

Not that it's actually going to achieve anything....

There is nothing wrong with me expressing my opinion,

... but free expression of opinion has never been about such minor details.

and you are free to ignore me rather than respond to things I say. If you really feel I'm whining, then go ahead and put me on your ignore list.

But I like whinging people!
 

GnomeWorks said:
Rod of seven parts just doesn't go together, you have to weld it together.

I imagine that there are a lot of opportunities for various mundane skills to have more extraordinary applications. We all have difficulties imagining them because, for the most part, we've been trained that these things take place off-screen or are performed by the supporting cast.

They don't have to be, though.
True, but good luck on changing this perception! :)
 

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