D&D 5E Crawford on Stealth

[nswanson27]

If passive scores are always the floor of rolls, rogue's reliable talent would be useless... trying to wrap my gead around that...
I am now thinking that I should maybe use passive perception only to notice general things and not specifically point out what exactly may be there.

Well there is no passive stealth check, which is the main beneficiary of reliable talent.

 

[Rod Staffwand]

The bit about passive perception being the 'floor' of your perception confuses the differences between active and passive skill uses. In no way should both results be used simultaneously.

Passive perception is used as a DC for creatures sneaking up on you and, perhaps, whether or not you notice an obscured feature or subtle event.

Active perception checks are used when you're actively looking for or studying something. Often, actively looking for something (such as a trap or secret door) is the only way to find it. If a passive perception DC isn't listed for it, even a creature with passive perception 100 wouldn't notice it (though such a creature would easily spot it when they did search for it).

Other than that, Crawford almost makes the distinction that hiding represents obscuring your position (or presence in the case of enemies that aren't yet aware of you) but doesn't quite. I think an explicit explanation would be helpful to a lot of players and I still believe the stealth section would have benefited by better organization, clearer writing and more concrete examples of common situations.

 

[Fanaelialae]

That is not correct. Every skill can be used passively. Only perception is used frequently.

Sent from my GT-I9506 using EN World mobile app

Per RAW, I don't think that is correct. By the book, I think only perception can be used passively. There is no take 10 rule in 5e, as far as I'm aware.

That's not to say that it isn't effortless to extend the concept to certain skills. I've done so myself. But that doesn't make it RAW.

If I am mistaken, and RAW does support other passive skills, could you please provide me a citation so that I can look it up when I get home, if you don't mind?

 

[dco]

Absurd.
Passive perception is the average rounded down, the same way in the monster manual you have the average damage for attacks.
If they wanted to do it differently they failed with the design of the game, they could have used 10+1d10 for abilities, they also failed explaining the game rules.

 

[flametitan]

Per RAW, I don't think that is correct. By the book, I think only perception can be used passively. There is no take 10 rule in 5e, as far as I'm aware.

That's not to say that it isn't effortless to extend the concept to certain skills. I've done so myself. But that doesn't make it RAW.

If I am mistaken, and RAW does support other passive skills, could you please provide me a citation so that I can look it up when I get home, if you don't mind?

Basic Rules 59 and PHB 175 are worded in such a way as to be skill agnostic. They use perception as an example, but at no point say "This is a perception only thing."

 

[iserith]

Basic Rules 59 and PHB 175 are worded in such a way as to be skill agnostic. They use perception as an example, but at no point say "This is a perception only thing."

Right. That section in the Basic Rules also notes "The rules on hiding in the 'Dexterity' section below rely on passive checks, as do the exploration rules in chapter 8."

 

[raleel]

edit: don't need 5 people saying the same thing. though all the examples in the exploration chapter are perception

 

[Ganymede81]

Per RAW, I don't think that is correct. By the book, I think only perception can be used passively. There is no take 10 rule in 5e, as far as I'm aware.

That's not to say that it isn't effortless to extend the concept to certain skills. I've done so myself. But that doesn't make it RAW.

If I am mistaken, and RAW does support other passive skills, could you please provide me a citation so that I can look it up when I get home, if you don't mind?

The Observant feat gives the beneficiary a +5 to both Passive Perception and Passive Investigation checks.

Additionally, on page 175 of the PHB, Passive Checks are described and nothing in the description limits them to Perception checks. One of the examples given in this section, searching for secret doors, is normally resolved with Investigation.

 

[jgsugden]

A reminder: If people put resources into being able to spot things, don't be frustrated as a DM that they spot things easily and don't make it harder to spot things. Find ways to make their ability into something heroic and celebrate it. 'Play up' how that's PCs amazing powers of perception allow them to notice something everyone else would miss. This is something they devoted resources to in order to excel - let them do so!

Remember: The DMs goal is not to make everything a challenge: It is to provide challenges for the players as part of a good story. You can have that great story without everything being a challenge.

 

[Caliban]

Per RAW, I don't think that is correct. By the book, I think only perception can be used passively. There is no take 10 rule in 5e, as far as I'm aware.

That's not to say that it isn't effortless to extend the concept to certain skills. I've done so myself. But that doesn't make it RAW.

If I am mistaken, and RAW does support other passive skills, could you please provide me a citation so that I can look it up when I get home, if you don't mind?

Well, according to the Observant feat, passive Investigate is also a thing. I've also seen a case made for passive Insight. Basically, the skills that let you sense something. But it's not actually discussed in the rules, other than Passive Perception.

But I agree that most skills probably aren't intended to be used passively. (Passive Stealth? Are you are always making a half-assed attempt to hide?)

Personally, I like the idea of Passive Perception being the minimum perception. If I think something would be harder to spot, I can impose a -5 due to disadvantage, or set the DC higher. But it allows me to describe the environment and what they see (or not mention things they don't see) without interrupting the narrative to have everyone roll perception checks.

And remember that several of the items that boost your passive perception are situational - they only do it for a single sense or situation. So if you don't think that sense or situation applies, they don't get the bonus.