Creating Synthetic Life

Yeah, I knew it wouldn't be creating life at all. Scientists are always doing that stuff to hype up their work. Part of the game. For the public, and for investors. I don't blame em, but to anyone with scientific training it often makes their claims look silly and juvenile.

In all fairness, a lot of times reporters do that all on their own. After all, it's a lot more interesting to say "Hints of life found on Titan" than "Expected hydrogen and acetylene levels on Titan not accounted for." Still, the quest for funding is one of the necessary but icky parts of being a scientist. Unfortunately research does not pay for itself, and it's always a competition to get funding.

one thing it gave me an idea for was the creation of a biological organism that could be injected into the human body which might feed off our waste products in the later stages of filtration (they would consume our waste) and then those same creatures would excrete biochemicals useful to us while still inside our body. We would excrete far less waste, and we'd lose a few of our new symbiotes through filtration and our own waste processes, but with the help of these new organisms they would then recycle our own waste as useful biochemicals for new applications. Biologically it would be bad waste through, recycle, useful waste reprocessed. Ideally they could also convert many of our waste toxins into proto-substances that our own immune system could use to optimize function.

We actually do have intestinal flora that process things we don't digest. Adjusting that flora isn't as simple as injecting new species though. Within the first month or so after birth our immune systems become attuned to the flora in our gut. Afterward, foreign bacteria are treated like any other non-self object, and attacked by the immune system. Unfortunately, a lot of factors go in to what flora we have - method of birth, breast feeding, maternal flora, and local environment being the big ones. Still, the best method for pursuing what you describe would be genetic alterations of gut flora. For example, you could find cellulose-digesting bacteria, take the genes for that mechanism, insert them into gut flora, and hope there's not enough different for the immune system to attack it.

There are a couple of other difficulties involved. The big one is that intestinal flora are generally anaerobic; they don't like oxygen. So figuring out how to easily administer them would be a challenge. Additionally, any sort of antibiotic regimen or other medical treatment that removes gut flora would also destroy the modified bacteria. Therefore, it would need to be reintroduced on occassion. It's hypothesized that bacteria (specifically biofilms) exist in the appendix, where it's protected from such "killing events" and can be rejuvenated from there. It may be possible to introduce the modified bacteria there, however it's only a hypothesis.
 

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our clarification doesn't help, because in point of fact, lizard scales are less efficient at storing heat than human skin anyway. Lizard scales form a more efficient protective layer than mammal skin. Lizard scales are actually more resistant to heating than mammal skin.

Either way, lizard skin would be... not what you want to be looking at.

I never mentioned lizard scales, I mentioned the skin of certain lizards and certain lizard cells. And I mentioned on more than one occasion specific properties it could be modified for. I suspect someone who constantly misreads statements and then draws faulty conclusions, well their tremendously acute advice is itself suspect. And very much worth ignoring.


I'm not even sure that it's that; it's more like speculation.

I've been around long enough, and around since the internet started, to recognize the type of personality who scans across the internet looking to interject his/her opinions into everything without any analysis at all of what he is actually saying, or of what anyone else is actually saying. I suspect I can part ways from the enormous acumen of your background and training without fear of much loss of capability on my own part. Or on the part of anyone else, for that matter. So, since you habitually misread what I say, and I have noticed habitually misread what others say, and since because of this you have demonstrated a noted lack of both perception of the actual content being discussed, and a sufficient lack of any contribution other than that of reflexive argument, why don't we just both agree your that your far more often than not comments lack real productive insight. So, as far as I'm concerned, I'm just gonna ignore ya from now on fella. Assuming you are a fella.

Unsurprisingly, becoming easily offended and attempting to couch insulting commentary in semi-polite text gets you booted from the thread. Everyone reading this, please use this as an example of what not to do. ~ PCat

In all fairness, a lot of times reporters do that all on their own. After all, it's a lot more interesting to say "Hints of life found on Titan" than "Expected hydrogen and acetylene levels on Titan not accounted for." Still, the quest for funding is one of the necessary but icky parts of being a scientist. Unfortunately research does not pay for itself, and it's always a competition to get funding.

You're right about the journalistic sensationalism part. Real science doesn't work like Marvel comic science, but that bores a lot of people and it bores a lot of journalist. On the other hand he did name his company as he did, and did suggest he was creating new species and life, whereas he was just modifying an existing one, and I don't blame him for that because yes, he needs funding.

We actually do have intestinal flora that process things we don't digest. Adjusting that flora isn't as simple as injecting new species though. Within the first month or so after birth our immune systems become attuned to the flora in our gut. Afterward, foreign bacteria are treated like any other non-self object, and attacked by the immune system. Unfortunately, a lot of factors go in to what flora we have - method of birth, breast feeding, maternal flora, and local environment being the big ones. Still, the best method for pursuing what you describe would be genetic alterations of gut flora. For example, you could find cellulose-digesting bacteria, take the genes for that mechanism, insert them into gut flora, and hope there's not enough different for the immune system to attack it.

There are a couple of other difficulties involved. The big one is that intestinal flora are generally anaerobic; they don't like oxygen. So figuring out how to easily administer them would be a challenge. Additionally, any sort of antibiotic regimen or other medical treatment that removes gut flora would also destroy the modified bacteria. Therefore, it would need to be reintroduced on occassion. It's hypothesized that bacteria (specifically biofilms) exist in the appendix, where it's protected from such "killing events" and can be rejuvenated from there. It may be possible to introduce the modified bacteria there, however it's only a hypothesis.

You gave me some interesting ideas. About the GI tract, and how the bacteria might develop a symbiotic environment which could then reabsorb the waste of the bacteria as innate and natural material rather than as simply different waste material that needs to be refiltered.

I was driving in the car last night listening to a lecture on specialized or extraordinary cells, and mature stem cells by Young. I was thinking about placental cells and the appendix. About using the lining of the appendix as a stem cell housing for innate stem cells which could then be harvested, or dispersed, as necessary, for treatment of future injuries and invasions.

Of course you would need a whole cluster of proteins and so forth to regulate and command functions, and for the appendix to become a distribution center for undifferentiated mature stem cells that could then be dispersed as needed by the immune system and by the body to repair injury.

Of course there would be a host of problems to overcome first, there always are in science, but you would already have an organ within the body that would, with modification, make a good storage system for extraordinary cell types.

Well, it's my weekend off. So I'm gonna go take in a movie maybe, vad some, and perhaps get in some fishing.
 
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If you expose anything to enough energy then a certain percentage of that energy is transferred to the object being heated.

This is why I kept speaking about radiant and heat energy. In my original post.

Animal cells cannot undertake photosynthesis because they are constructed completely differently with different internal mechanisms and different membranes, etc. And in addition to performing different functions as far as the way they chemically produce (and absorb) and utilize chemical components/energy the processes are incompatible as both are currently constructed. I was not speaking about animal photosynthesis, which would require an entire reconstruction of the animal cell. And in that case it wouldn't really be an animal cell anymore. And I'm not talking about reconstructing the human cell, but merely in giving it the ability(s) of certain other animals.

I was talking about the ability of certain lizard cells (and other creatures) to absorb heat and radiant energy from the sun and then store it efficiently (while in certain environments and under certain conditions) allowing the lizard to covert the heat energy thus absorbed into mechanical work. Plus it (the lizard cell) is resistant to direct exposure to sunlight (resistant to harm from direct exposure to sunlight, relative to most human epidermal cells, over long periods of time, and that would be an additional desired feature). Of course people would not likely desire to have "lizard skin," so I'm not talking about giving people the same texture of skin, but certain other capabilities if it is possible to do so with totally mimicking lizard cells in every way. And I'm not talking about maintaining homeostatic efficiency in relation to the environment since humans have a better and more constant (and fluid) methods of regulating primary functions than do reptiles.

And I'm not talking about replacing all human cells or genetically modifying them into animal cells, merely giving some of them augmented capabilities. This is why I said you wouldn't want this as a primary means of energy conversion or usage. It would be a secondary system applicable to certain environments and circumstances.

I'm not sure some of you are reading very carefully what I said. You're just assuming things. But that's okay by me. It is after all the internet.

No, I read it very carefully.

Lizards do not convert heat energy to mechanical energy, nor are they any more efficient at storing heat energy than other animals. Your claim was that you hoped to reduce the need for food by using direct energy from the sun. That's biologically impossible.

Unless, of course, you have access to new groudnbreaking information, in which case I'd love a cite, please. Because an animal biologic process that can take energy directly from the sun and use it as anything other than heat would pretty much change the game.
 

I never mentioned lizard scales, I mentioned the skin of certain lizards and certain lizard cells. And I mentioned on more than one occasion specific properties it could be modified for. I suspect someone who constantly misreads statements and then draws faulty conclusions, well their tremendously acute advice is itself suspect. And very much worth ignoring.
I'm not constantly misreading you, you're constantly backpedaling. In point of fact, this so-called experiment you are conducting has no basis in any biological fact whatsoever, and you keep trying to limit your earlier claims in an attempt to maintain a shred of credibility.

Which you still fail to do, because there is no cell on any part of a lizard anywhere that can do anything with sunlight except warm up.

If you had, in fact, any scientific basis whatsoever for these wild claims you're making, you wouldn't need to resort to personal attacks against me, you could merely clarify what your cryptic claims actually mean. I notice that you are not doing that.

I'm pretty confident in my conclusions.
Jack7 said:
I've been around long enough, and around since the internet started, to recognize the type of personality who scans across the internet looking to interject his/her opinions into everything without any analysis at all of what he is actually saying, or of what anyone else is actually saying.
And I've been around long enough (also since the internet started, hey, look at that!) to recognize when someone repeatedly makes increasingly outlandish claims about their capabilities, backgrounds, and activities. You've claimed here on ENWorld to have been a professional expert in no less than about two dozen lifetime careers already, as well as a near-professional level of expertise in as many hobbies, and you also claim to be on the cutting edge of at least half a dozen sciences. You've managed to do so in sufficiently vague and cryptic ways up until now, making it difficult to contradict anything you've claimed, but on this one, you got caught. You claimed a biological impossibility, and when called on it, tried to dig in and salvage it.

If I were you, I'd cut it out now. You're just embarrassing yourself.
 

Unless, of course, you have access to new groudnbreaking information, in which case I'd love a cite, please. Because an animal biologic process that can take energy directly from the sun and use it as anything other than heat would pretty much change the game.
It's not exactly groundbreaking, but there are some molluscs which can capture & cultivate chloroplasts.

Cheers, -- N
 

That is pretty interesting.

Although I don't think that's in a position to "change the game", as Ovi puts it.

However, I was not aware of that. I guess that's what I get for previously believing molluscs were unworthy of my attention.
 


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