ExploderWizard
Hero
Yes, OR stack the -5 on top of disadvantage if disadvantage already applied.
D&D 5E Creative solutions to the hypothetical GWF/Sharpshooter issue
- Thread starter Mouseferatu
- Start date
Yes, OR stack the -5 on top of disadvantage if disadvantage already applied.
Warbringer
Explorer
Add if you miss your opponent has advantage on their next attack vs you.
Fits the whole "swinging harder and losing balance"
Using disadvantage on attack rather than -5 makes this feat stronger. Was that the intent?
Fits the whole "swinging harder and losing balance"
Using disadvantage on attack rather than -5 makes this feat stronger. Was that the intent?
ExploderWizard
Hero
WHAT WHOA!!!
pming
Legend
Hiya.
GWF: "You have Disadvantage to hit [with -2 if you already are at Disadvantage], but any hit with your weapon will do at least average dice damage. For example, a weapon with 2d6 damage will do at least 3 points on each die; rolls under 3 count as 3 (i.e., a roll of 1 and 5 would do 8 points, not 6). A Critical Hit will do maximum damage for both rolls (i.e., 2d6 damage critical would do 24 damage)."
Sharpshooter: "Pick a single missile weapon (short bow, throwing dagger, sling, etc.). If you have at least one full round to aim and watch your opponent, you can not suffer Disadvantage on your attack due to range, cover, etc."
There's two off the top of my head.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
GWF: "You have Disadvantage to hit [with -2 if you already are at Disadvantage], but any hit with your weapon will do at least average dice damage. For example, a weapon with 2d6 damage will do at least 3 points on each die; rolls under 3 count as 3 (i.e., a roll of 1 and 5 would do 8 points, not 6). A Critical Hit will do maximum damage for both rolls (i.e., 2d6 damage critical would do 24 damage)."
Sharpshooter: "Pick a single missile weapon (short bow, throwing dagger, sling, etc.). If you have at least one full round to aim and watch your opponent, you can not suffer Disadvantage on your attack due to range, cover, etc."
There's two off the top of my head.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
Jaron Mortimer
First Post
It all comes down to what each style benefits from and what each style is designed to do.
GWF - Big damage, Low AC
S&B - Low damage, High AC
TWF - Mid Damage, Mid AC
I think GWF and Shield master are both fantastic for playing up the style of each type of fighter. TWF kinda loses out, because to do much of anything means essentially just increasing damage, but that can be done in interesting ways. The GWF gets a couple BIG hits; by contrast, the TWF focuses on lots of smaller hits. A "rending" or "Bleeding" mechanic would support this style and increase effectiveness.
As well, I feel that the "Use any two one handed weapons" should be part of the fighting style , not the feat. I would change the abilities and feats like so:
- TWF style: You may use any two one handed weapons while dual wielding. When you make a TWF bonus action attack, you add your ability modifier to the damage roll.
- Dual Wielder: you can draw/Stow two weapons per round, you gain a +1 to AC while Dual Wielding, and you gain the ability to rend with your attacks. If you hit with At least one of your attacks and your TWF bonus attack in the same turn, you may rend the target, dealing 1d8 damage plus your ability modifier (whichever you used for the attacks)
This would add some bonus damage in a way that is totally different than the GWF, but still rather effective.
GWF - Big damage, Low AC
S&B - Low damage, High AC
TWF - Mid Damage, Mid AC
I think GWF and Shield master are both fantastic for playing up the style of each type of fighter. TWF kinda loses out, because to do much of anything means essentially just increasing damage, but that can be done in interesting ways. The GWF gets a couple BIG hits; by contrast, the TWF focuses on lots of smaller hits. A "rending" or "Bleeding" mechanic would support this style and increase effectiveness.
As well, I feel that the "Use any two one handed weapons" should be part of the fighting style , not the feat. I would change the abilities and feats like so:
- TWF style: You may use any two one handed weapons while dual wielding. When you make a TWF bonus action attack, you add your ability modifier to the damage roll.
- Dual Wielder: you can draw/Stow two weapons per round, you gain a +1 to AC while Dual Wielding, and you gain the ability to rend with your attacks. If you hit with At least one of your attacks and your TWF bonus attack in the same turn, you may rend the target, dealing 1d8 damage plus your ability modifier (whichever you used for the attacks)
This would add some bonus damage in a way that is totally different than the GWF, but still rather effective.
vandaexpress
First Post
Has anyone messed around with the speed factor variant at all? I dunno what the consensus is on that in terms of how it affects things, I'm guessing someone's done an analysis on it already, but that would be the first thing I'd look at. In general it might be interesting to just do some sort of bonus to initiative for being a fancy duelist without a shield. Not sure if I'm too invested in improving the one-handed-no-shield fighting style though... there's a reason knights usually went sword and board or claymore (or equivalent), historically. The only way I think it could make sense is in combination with some weird AC boosting thing from charisma for looking fancy and having panache, if you're looking for a way to add flavor and mechanics without worrying too much about "realism" (within the context of a typical fantasy world).
I'm not sure if this is in place, but maybe put a disadvantage thing on heavy and medium armor for acrobatics checks, similar to the stealth penalty, thereby limiting enemy ability to follow your fancy duelist as he does cool tricks with chandeliers and flips off things zorro style.
S&B guys have a pretty distinct advantage when fighting against long ranged enemies as they take less damage while advancing into range. One way to change things up is to add more ranged encounters that require the party to traverse terrain before reaching the enemy. Especially if they hit hard (ballistas and stuff), as these have a chance of straight up taking out the advancing unshielded characters and let the S&B guy feel special as he deals damage while the GWF is bleeding out.
You could just straight up give one-handed duelists an extra damage die when using a finesse weapon (build it in as a feat or part of another feat). To me, that seems pretty reasonable. I'm not much of a fencer, but on the occasions where I've picked up a foil and fenced, the part that stands out the most to me is how fast you can strike with those things. Rather than giving them an extra attack altogether, just give them an extra damage die on the attack, representing lots of little cuts and nicks. An additional attack would be too easy to break with riders and damage bonuses. Or allow double the dex bonus on damage? Something that's easy to control, a flat damage bonus.
I'm not sure if this is in place, but maybe put a disadvantage thing on heavy and medium armor for acrobatics checks, similar to the stealth penalty, thereby limiting enemy ability to follow your fancy duelist as he does cool tricks with chandeliers and flips off things zorro style.
S&B guys have a pretty distinct advantage when fighting against long ranged enemies as they take less damage while advancing into range. One way to change things up is to add more ranged encounters that require the party to traverse terrain before reaching the enemy. Especially if they hit hard (ballistas and stuff), as these have a chance of straight up taking out the advancing unshielded characters and let the S&B guy feel special as he deals damage while the GWF is bleeding out.
You could just straight up give one-handed duelists an extra damage die when using a finesse weapon (build it in as a feat or part of another feat). To me, that seems pretty reasonable. I'm not much of a fencer, but on the occasions where I've picked up a foil and fenced, the part that stands out the most to me is how fast you can strike with those things. Rather than giving them an extra attack altogether, just give them an extra damage die on the attack, representing lots of little cuts and nicks. An additional attack would be too easy to break with riders and damage bonuses. Or allow double the dex bonus on damage? Something that's easy to control, a flat damage bonus.
That should be more like -3 for +5 considering they are only striking with one hand of power.
Jefe Bergenstein
Legend
If someone implemented those changes, I'd rather they just ban feats altogether...
Guys, the point of the thread isn't to pile on more unbalanced nerfs to GWM or Sharpshooter, but to build the other styles up to snuff. The thread supposes those are balanced-ish.
Giving everyone a -5/+10 damage feat isn't the solution (because then 2 handed is back to crap compared to shield/dex based dual wield builds).
Sword and Board doesn't need much. Maybe some defensive utility - the feat that lets you add your proficiency bonus to your AC as a react is kind of weak and could use a tweak. But +2 AC (or more, thanks to magic shields) is a hell of a lot better baseline than 2 damage. Shield mastery is great with the bonus shove. If you take dual wielder, you should get a further +1 on that and get to attack as a bonus action.
I don't see a way to fix dual wielding by adding multiple attacks with the offhand, as then you swing back to it being better due to stacking static mods and we had enough of that in 4E. Its main benefit is you get to dump strength and dex is a generally better stat - initiative, AC, used for better ranged attacks, used for more saves, etc. Maybe adding some combos or effects based off the type of weapon used and if both attacks hit. Blunt knocks prone on a failed athletics, slash deals extra damage equal to the main hand die type, piercing imposes disadvantage on the target's next attack.
Tony Vargas
Legend
I take it any existing feats for the other styles are somehow inadequate? Is it just because they can't easily be parsed into DPR?
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