Creature Catalogue Overhaul Project Revisited

[freyar]

So do you want to add a line about gentle repose? I'd imagine the DM could just use their discretion if we leave that out.

Mmmmph, ok, how about CL 5?

 

[Cleon]

So do you want to add a line about gentle repose? I'd imagine the DM could just use their discretion if we leave that out.

I'd rather leave out gentle repose.

How about the following:

Whiz-bang honey is perishable and loses all its properties 1 month after being harvested unless it is preserved by alchemical or magical means - a process that costs 100 gp per ounce and a DC 15 Craft (alchemy) or DC 15 Knowledge (arcane) check. An ounce of preserved whiz-bang honey can be bought for 300 gp.

Mmmmph, ok, how about CL 5?

Since it's a good deal cheaper than the 750 gp of a potion of haste, which has a minimum CL of 5th I'm leaning towards making it a bit lower so it isn't as potent as a haste potion.

Whiz-bang honey uses the rules for magic potions except as noted below. The "potion" is equivalent to a 2nd-level spell with a caster level of 3. [?]

A standard 2nd level spell potion is 300 gp, which matches the cost of a ounce of preserved honey.

Upon reflection, I would have no objection to keeping the CL of 5th you proposed and just make the spell-level lower:

Whiz-bang honey uses the rules for magic potions except as noted below. The "potion" is equivalent to a 2nd-level spell with a caster level of 5. [?]

Does that seem OK to you? It's hard to eyeball it. The duration of effect of the honey averages about the same as a haste potion, but the potion is 100% reliable while the honey is only 55% (or 65% if you include the speed effect) plus it has those unpleasant side-effects and is only really useful once per day.

I'm wondering whether that's enough to reduce the cost even more? I'm starting to think I'd like the "Nests too small to contain a swarm" to contain 1d6 ounces like they did originally, which suggests the larger nests should contain 8d6 ounces instead of one.

Hmm... how about:

their honey is prized for its unusual properties (see Whiz-Bang Honey for details) and can be sold for 50 gold pieces per ounce. A hive typically contains 8d6 ounces of whiz-bang honey per swarm of beetles. Nests too small to contain a swarm usually contain 1d6 ounces of honey.

- - -

Whiz-bang honey uses the rules for magic potions except as noted below. The "potion" is equivalent to a 2nd-level spell with a caster level of 3. [or 5?]

Whiz-bang honey is perishable and loses all its properties 1 month after being harvested unless it is preserved by alchemical or magical means - a process that costs 100 gp per ounce and requires a DC 15 Craft (alchemy) or DC 15 Knowledge (arcane) check. An ounce of preserved whiz-bang honey can be purchased for 250 gp.

 

[freyar]

Let's go with CL 5 (just picking semi-arbitrarily). I will agree with your proposals below the "Hmm... how about:" line.

With those changes, are we ready to move to the individual beetle?

 

[Cleon]

Let's go with CL 5 (just picking semi-arbitrarily). I will agree with your proposals below the "Hmm... how about:" line.

Updating the Whizz-Bang Beetle Working Draft.

With those changes, are we ready to move to the individual beetle?

Yes!

 

[Cleon]

With those changes, are we ready to move to the individual beetle?

I've updated the individual beetle in the Whizz-Bang Beetle Working Draft with the relevant stats from the Swarm version.

Should I copy & Paste the Combustion Sense of just use:

Combustion Sense (Ex): See whiz-bang beetle swarm.

I'm inclined to use the shorter option, since I'd rather have this as a single CC entry.

 

[freyar]

Go for the shorter option on the Combustion Sense.

For the attacks, I think I'd only allow the whiz-bang attack. Then the standard swarm damage is from flying beetles within an overall stationary swarm. I think everything else suggested in the working draft looks ok, too, though we don't need another entry for the honey.

From the flavor text for the swarm, we don't need a separate entry for the queen. (We say, "A queen has the same statistics as other whiz-bang beetles.")

 

[Cleon]

Go for the shorter option on the Combustion Sense.

Updating the Whizz-Bang Beetle Working Draft.

For the attacks, I think I'd only allow the whiz-bang attack. Then the standard swarm damage is from flying beetles within an overall stationary swarm.

Hmm… I'm undecided on the issue. It's standard swarm damage, so the beetles can inflict it while remaining stationary (i.e. they don't need to fly). It's more relevant to consider the damage. Is 2d6 enough to indicate they have a worthwhile additional attack. That's the same damage as a Locust Swarm and Centipede Swarm, so if we knew what damage an individual Locust or Diminutive Centipede did we would have something to work with!

Not that all the SRD swarm damages make sense - why is a Centipede Swarm so much tougher than a Spider Swarm, when the Monstrous Spiders and tougher than a Centipede of the same size?

I think everything else suggested in the working draft looks ok, too, though we don't need another entry for the honey.

From the flavor text for the swarm, we don't need a separate entry for the queen. (We say, "A queen has the same statistics as other whiz-bang beetles.")

Yes, I was planning on cutting out a few chunks of the red text.

Indeed I've already done so!

 

[freyar]

Yeah, I guess these are pretty big to have the swarm constantly buzzing around. :/ That sort of argues for some other attack. On the other hand, bats have no attacks, but bat swarms still do swarm damage. I'd vote to leave off any attack but the whiz-bang.

Maybe the centipede swarm is worse because it has a lot more centipedes in it?

 

[Cleon]

Yeah, I guess these are pretty big to have the swarm constantly buzzing around. :/ That sort of argues for some other attack. On the other hand, bats have no attacks, but bat swarms still do swarm damage. I'd vote to leave off any attack but the whiz-bang.

Oh very well, I can always leave the bite attack in the inherently superior Cleon Special™.

Maybe the centipede swarm is worse because it has a lot more centipedes in it?

Not according to the numbers in the SRD's general information on Swarms, which says flying swarms of Tiny or Diminutive creatures always have three and a third times as many creatures as nonflying swarms.

Which I've never liked much, but that's neither here nor there.

How much of the red text in the statblock are you OK with apart from the bite attack?

If it's all OK, the only mechanical bits we need to figure out is an individual version of the Whiz-bang attack.

 

[freyar]

I'm ok with the red text except for dropping the bite preferably. The text for the Whiz-Bang is ok, I think. I don't see anything else it really needs.