D&D 5E Crimson Flame [Homebrew Spell]

[Dan Chernozub]

Honestly it was just supposed to be a two-turn damage spell. Damage spells are the easiest to make and balance.

It wasn't supposed to be the same as Fireball, it's just Fireball's over damaged for its level so it comes out the same as two turns of a level 2 spell's recommended damage.


The hard parts I'm concerned about are the damage and the two-turn aspect. Currently it deals two 2nd level spell's worth of damage.
It saves you a second level spell slot, which is really good early on, but it delays that damage, giving opponents an extra turn to do stuff.
Does the saving of a slot balance with the delaying of the damage?

Once again the spell is bad, unbalanced and utterly unnecessary.

The default "burner" spell at level 2 does 6d6 damage to a single target, not 8d6 AOE.
The AOE spells at level 2 does like 3d8 damage in 4 times smaller AOE.
No spell in game scales as well with levels.
No spell in the game has an awkward 2 round casting time - and for a reason.
2 round casting time is in no way a reasonable cost of dealing times more damage when you are supposed to be able to at level 3.

What is the purpose of this exercise, I ask again?

If you want an interesting large AOE spell for a 2nd level slot, it should be doing less damage when single target/small AOE spells at the same level.

 

[jgsugden]

Sooo... never worth taking, at all?

I disagree.

Scorching Ray does more damage, and doesn't take two turns and concentration.

TO a single target it does more damage. This is an area spell. If there are 3 targets in the area it is doing 250% the damage total of the rays.

...

EDIT: Better yet, see Moonbeam which does only slightly less damage, and can be repeated over far more turns, without the delay in casting.

Compare Snilloc's Snowball, per my above.

 

[Yunru]

Compare Snilloc's Snowball, per my above.

Why? Moonbeam is far closer, being a spell that hits an area and occurs over a number of turns. It also shares the concentration requirement and does similar damage for the same length of time.

Why would I compare it with a spell that's less similar?


Sorry if I sound testy, the first response going "I got nothing to contribute, I'm just here to be an " has me wound up.

 

[Dan Chernozub]

So the whole point is to make a 2 round casting time spell?

Not a valid design goal by itself, IMO.

What do you want this spell to do? Maximize AOE damage at the expense of time? Maximize damage at the expense of time? Just provide a large AOE at 2nd level?

 

[jgsugden]

Why? Moonbeam is far closer, being a spell that hits an area and occurs over a number of turns. It also shares the concentration requirement and does similar damage for the same length of time.

Why would I compare it with a spell that's less similar?

It isn't less similar. If I cast Snilloc's, upon completion of casting a boom goes off and I deal damage all at once. That is your spell as well. Moonbeam is a much smaller area that requires concentration to maintain and, usually, requires the caster to devote another action each round to keep targets in the area of the spell as they will just walk away from it otherwise.

It looks like you're seeing this spell through a filter created by how you came up with the concept of the spell. You see it as two spells combined. However, everyone else is evaluating it as a single spell - and that is probably the better approach as it is, in fact, a single spell. The cost of casting it is one spell slot, and it takes effect at one time.

 

[Yunru]

Moonbeam is a much smaller area that requires concentration to maintain and, usually, requires the caster to devote another action each round to keep targets in the area of the spell as they will just walk away from it otherwise.

So? You cast it. The target starts their turn in it and takes damage. Unless they move more than 60 feet, you can move it next turn and rinse and repeat.

Moonbeam
Cost: Concentration, 1 action/turn
Reward: 1d10 damage per turn, half on save.

Crimson Flame
Cost: Concenration, 1 action/turn (for 2 turns)
Reward: 1d12 damage per turn, half on save (dealt all on the last turn)

So go ahead, say they're not similar, but they're far more similar to each other than either is to Snowball.


Balance-wise, sure Moonbeam's radius is smaller than Crimson Flame's, but it also does damage quicker, and can do far more over time.

 

[cbwjm]

I would probably compare this spell with another level 2 AoE spell which deals instant damage rather than moonbeam. Looking at Shatter, since Snilloc's snowball swarm is underpowered, it deals 3d8 thunder damage (essentially the recommended 4d6 aoe damage for a level 2 spell) in a 10-foot-radius. I would make the 2 round cast spell like your Crimson Flame based off of this. So starting with a base of 2d12 for a single action, I'd perhaps increase it by 1d12 for that extra round of casting since doubling it feels like too much to me.

This is just a gut feeling and I could be wrong as actual play might see 3d12 as too little damage. You could also try dropping the damage dice down a level from d12 to d10.

I do like the mechanic of multi-round casting time essentially charging up a spell.

 

[Ovarwa]

How many canonical spells take 2 rounds to cast?

If there are none, this is an instant fail, and the rest of the spell doesn't matter.

 

[Yunru]

How many canonical spells take 2 rounds to cast?

If there are none, this is an instant fail, and the rest of the spell doesn't matter.

If you don't want to participate, your presence is an instant fail.

Unless you wish to elaborate, but given you already had that chance...

 

[cbwjm]

How many canonical spells take 2 rounds to cast?

If there are none, this is an instant fail, and the rest of the spell doesn't matter.

Why? It's not like have to use it.