Critical Role Critical Role show kickstarter update: Backers have to get Amazon prime to get the show

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
They are exploiting a loophole to be in the right.

Originally they would have been giving the entire show to the backers. But then Amazon came in and the show got bigger and a second season is on the way. So, now they don't have to give this new show to the backers, because its a different show then what was promised.

Where was this ever promised? I can certainly be missing something. But as a backer it was clear to me that I was not going to get my own downloadable copy, DVD, or indefinite access to stream the show when it was complete.

Its still a really naughty word thing to do, no matter how you cut it. Its disgusting that this is what they've chosen to do, and I think anyone that is ok with it simply doesn't respect the implicit trust there must exist between a backer and a project owner. The implicit trust here was that the backers would be given access to the fruits of the labors of the Kickstarter. They never said before that Amazon coming in, or any other business deal, would prevent the episodes from being seen directly by those who backed.

What do you mean by "being seen directly"? I've backed other shows where I was given, for example, an access code for a single viewing. I still had to create an account. How else would they limit it just to backers?

Signing up for Amazon and then cancel your account, or if you did the trial in the past and have to create a new trial with a new e-mail address is a bit annoying and I can understand complaints in that regard, but Amazon's not going to code in a different way to access their service just for this one show. You would rather they walk away from the deal so some backer can't have access via something like Vimeo?
 

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dave2008

Legend
It wasn't as clear as I think, obviously, because they ended up exploiting a loophole and telling their backers to exploit a different loophole to get their backer rewards. Its ok if you think that's savory Kickstarter business practice, but I think its abhorrent, disrespectful, and disgusting of them to do. Thanks.
I didn't back and I don't watch CR, but I did follow the KS a bit and I feel this response is a just a bit over the top. They explicitly told backers they are not getting physical or digital copies of the show. No harm or foul there. They promised they could see the show for free, but never described how that was to work - remember they said you are not getting a digital or physical copy. They delivered that through Amazon. Do people have issue with having to sign up with Amazon to get it. Sure, I get that. But is that abhorrent, disrespectful, and disgusting? Doesn't seem like it to me.

Now I have spent way to much time on something I do not really care about. So that is it for me.

PS - I feel sorry for you and your acquaintances who feel jilted. That always sucks.
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
The only weirdness is if I was not a backer (I am) I still would be able to see it free with a trail account anyway, so in that respect only...is backer meaningless?
No, because you get the other rewards. All backers get access to live and on-demand pre-preleases from a Little Theater (if I'm remembering the name correctly), a company specializing in virtual pre-release showings.

Then, depending on the tier you contributed at you get other stuff. Ringtones, plushies, other stuff. I'd have to log in and look because I never cared about any of that.
 

Where was this ever promised? I can certainly be missing something. But as a backer it was clear to me that I was not going to get my own downloadable copy, DVD, or indefinite access to stream the show when it was complete.



What do you mean by "being seen directly"? I've backed other shows where I was given, for example, an access code for a single viewing. I still had to create an account. How else would they limit it just to backers?

Signing up for Amazon and then cancel your account, or if you did the trial in the past and have to create a new trial with a new e-mail address is a bit annoying and I can understand complaints in that regard, but Amazon's not going to code in a different way to access their service just for this one show. You would rather they walk away from the deal so some backer can't have access via something like Vimeo?
Let's not pretend I said anything about Vimeo, walking away from the deal, and so on. I'm not interested in discussing would-be hypotheticals of what they could done, only how I feel about what they did do in the context of the Kickstarter.

Its great that you are accepting of this. I'm glad you were able to receive the product in a way, for you, was convenient. Unfortunately, I don't share the same positive feelings that you do. I can't help but think its absolutely absurd they got 88 thousand people to have to either make a new account with Amazon, do a free trial of Prime, and so on and so forth in order to enjoy the thing that their money helped created. I certainly would never back any kickstarter that told me I would have to pay again for my reward in this specific manner unless they were entirely up front with it and the tiers for backing were significantly cheaper as a result.

I cannot ever say this was an ethical business practice by Critical Role. It is loophole capitalism at its finest that disrespects the consumer in favor of money, and doesn't make any attempt at concessions other then exploiting more loopholes in the system. Yuck.
 

Bolares

Hero
Perhaps you missed these posts #8 and #10. They are delivering what they promised. Now if you feel delivering it on AP was not part of that, well as far as I remember they didn't make an promises on how it was to be delivered.
Nope, I saw those posts. I'm not saying they are underdelivering. The show wasn't one of the rewards for backing. They did promise the backers would get to see 2 episodes first, and for free. That's where they could've been more clear. But maybe they themselves didn't know how that was going to happen yet.
 

SkidAce

Legend
Supporter
No, because you get the other rewards. All backers get access to live and on-demand pre-preleases from a Little Theater (if I'm remembering the name correctly), a company specializing in virtual pre-release showings.

Then, depending on the tier you contributed at you get other stuff. Ringtones, plushies, other stuff. I'd have to log in and look because I never cared about any of that.
I agree, and did say in the "this respect only" (free watching via trial) was backer meaningless?.
 

jgsugden

Legend
There is a difference between justice/legal rights and the legal concept of equity. What is just may not be equitable, and what is equitable may require more than what is just.

Here, they asked people to help them create an animated special, that through the quality and quantity of support provided grew toi a season, which then (after being picked up by Amazon) was expanded to two seasons. The original vision grew and they adapted on the fly, resulting in a less organized final result than was possible.

Critical Role has met every obligation they promised in the KS, and thus have seen this to a just end. They did what was contractually required.

However, equity (and equity does not just mean equal - we're talking about the legal concept where we address situations where the letter of the law is unfair) doesn't seem to have been addressed here adequately to prevent people feeling 'ripped off'. We've historically had 'Courts of Equity' in Western Cultures that said, "I know what the letter of the law says, but that is unfair because of things not contemplated - do better.' They usually didn't provide money damages to people - they instead required actions that fixed the problem. They would have been seen better if they'd found a way for every backer of a certain level or above to be able to see it. Given their relationship with Twitch and Amazon, something should have been possible.

There are less than 90,000 backers. 65% of all Amazon users have Prime, and I'd tend to guess that most of the people that hand funds to throw here buy things on Amazon, and a disproportionate number of them (but certianly not all) have Prime. If they polled the people without Ptime, I'm guessing it would be 20K people, but that could be off. Amazon could have given them a bonus month of Prime Membership (on top of the normal free trial period you can get) to cover the first season (which was all that was supported/discussed by the KS), or they could have done a Subscription Only Twitch channel for it and gi ven free Subscription to it to the Backers, with add suppoort that compensated Amazon perhaps, and charged a huge amount to non-backers to be on it (also going to Amazon, perhaps). They could have done better.
 




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