Critical stacking and feats - balanced? (Math-fu needed)

[Grayhawk]

Once again, thanks a lot!

While I digest the numbers, I'll share my thoughts on the origins of the Surgical Strike feat (the one I proposed that does away with the need for a confirmation roll on a crit).

Initially my thinking was that this mechanic should have been what the Improved Critical feat did, as I'd rather keep crits a rarity (so no doubling of threat ranges from a feat), and I thought that the 'no need for a confirmation roll' was a much more satisfying boon to get from a feat, compared to merely getting more threats that you could fail to confirm.

My initial thought was also that the feat this way could stack with the Keen enchantment, as they would be totally different things.

But I'm afraid that the concept is flawed, especially when you need to roll really high to hit, making all your hits critical.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to let both Improved Critical and Keen better your crit chances, without resorting to plain 3.0 stacking?

How about letting Improved Critical work as Power Critical instead? (+4 to the confirmation roll.)

(My own personal objection against this, is that while it might be a perfectly worthwhile feat (in the sense that it adds enough average damage), it just seems boring compared to other feats that gives you a more tangible benefit.)

 

[Interested2]

In my current campaign, we've houseruled that Keen, improved crit, etc, all stack. Monsters also have Augmented Critical on their natural weapons to compensate for this, generally on a 16-20 or so. This makes combat FAR more deadly and more realistic. Being hit with a 50 pound, razor sharp sword HURTS. A LOT.

 

[glass]

Does anyone have any ideas on how to let both Improved Critical and Keen better your crit chances, without resorting to plain 3.0 stacking?

How about Improved Crit increasing the threat range, and keen increasing the multiplier. Would keep crits rare (an therefore special), while making not denying high threat range weapons their advantage.


glass.

 

[Grayhawk]

How about Improved Crit increasing the threat range, and keen increasing the multiplier.

Would you math savy guys comment on this?

How does an increased multiplier compare to an increased threat range?

AFAIK, the doubling of threat ranges is pretty balanced for weapons of different threat ranges.

Does the same hold true if you merely add 1 to the multiplier instead? Or does it greatly favor weapons with lower multipliers?

And finally, which would you rather see increase the multiplier? Improved Crit or Keen?

 

[Nifft]

IMC, either Keen or Imp. Crit alone will double your threat range.

If you have both, you also get +1 to your multiplier.

-- N

 

[CRGreathouse]

Would you math savy guys comment on this?

How does an increased multiplier compare to an increased threat range?

AFAIK, the doubling of threat ranges is pretty balanced for weapons of different threat ranges.

Does the same hold true if you merely add 1 to the multiplier instead? Or does it greatly favor weapons with lower multipliers?

And finally, which would you rather see increase the multiplier? Improved Crit or Keen?

Improving a multiplier is generally better, and much better in conjunction with threat-increasing effects. It disproportianatelly helps weapons with low multipliers and high threat ranges.

 

[Grayhawk]

Improving a multiplier is generally better, and much better in conjunction with threat-increasing effects. It disproportianatelly helps weapons with low multipliers and high threat ranges.

Does the same hold true if a crit only multiplies the weapon's damage dice?

 

[CRGreathouse]

Does the same hold true if a crit only multiplies the weapon's damage dice?

Yes, but the effect is so small I wouldn't worry about it in that case.

 

[Grayhawk]

Yes, but the effect is so small I wouldn't worry about it in that case.

Also, in such a case (where a crit only multiplies the weapon's damage dice) I guess you could lessen the prereq of Improved Critical to BAB +6 without creating any balance issues?

Still considering the same scenario, would Improved Critical still be worth a feat? (Regardless of whether it doubles the threat range or whether it adds 1 to the multiplier.)