Critique my DM (long)

[Pielorinho]

I wonder if the DM is wanting a different kind of game from what you want, RS. It does sound liek the DM is working toward a plot-heavy mystery-game, rather than a rules-heavy wargame. Both types of play are valid, but the former style allows for a lot more rules-fudging than the latter style.

I also think that, especially with a new-to-the-rules DM, it does no one any good to publicly ridicule your DM (as you're doing on this forum). Were you playing in my campaign and you did this, I'd politely show you the door. If I spend a lot of my time trying to create fun scenarios for you, and you demonstrate your ingratitude so ostentatiously, I'd decide that you and I both would have lots more fun if you were somewhere else.

So here'd be my suggestion:
-If your DM knows about this thread, apologize to him.
-Tell your DM that you're a little worried about how he's handling encounters: that you think he's throwing very difficult encounters at you and then letting you survive by playing the enemies poorly.
-Talk with him about setting ELs for encounters, and make sure he's clear on the guidelines (e.g., an EL4 encounter will cream a first-level party on average, and 9 orcs is at least EL4).
-Ask him if you could be the designated rules-lawyer for the group: it'll be your responsibility to kep track of such rules as flanking, free-vs.-move-equivalent-vs-standard-vs-full actions, and the like.
-Try to have fun and to understand what kind of game the DM is trying to run before critiquing it.

Daniel

 

[King_Stannis]

Only thing he (or all of you) could have done wrong was that you didn´t have fun. If you did, stop nitpicking about the rules, there not that important.

It is very easy being a player and just sitting back waiting for your DM to present you with the fun for tonight. If you think you can do a better job, why don´t you just do it yourself? And if you can´t or don´t want to, stop whyning. DM-ing is hard work and you should be gratefull someone wants to do it for ya.

i was going to pretty much say this exact thing, but Shimrod has probably said it better than i could.

 

[Thebalrog]

G hosaphat!

Jeez you guys go a little easy on him, lol, he's just trying to get some feedback. Maybe after he got some suggestions here he was planning on showing the thread to his DM or something. Plus it's not as if he was non stop running off at the mouth about how his DM SuXxOrs or even told us his name, he pretty much just presented the case without much judgement.


Man o' Man some folks really cut him a new one, lol.


My own advice to the original poster is first of all don't feel bad about all these flames. 2nd as alot of people said, if you were unclear on the clues he was dropping, you might want to take your DM aside and speak to him OOC and try to get some kind of general non spoiling idea of what direction he wants the Module to take. And also bring up your actual concerns with him to.

From your description I don't see anything here that's abnormal for a new DM. Despite popular belief a good DM is REALLY hard to come by. And some DM's will never be up to the standard of someone like Piratecat, who's just a roleplaying master, hands down.

If he hasn't already read them, make sure he is aware of those portions in the DMG that discuss Dues Ex Machina and Ecounter Level and Challange Rating.

And most importantly give the guy a chance, it sounds like overall he was trying his best to make things run smooth in a situation that was pretty nearly out of his control. The way he avoided the TPK's may have seemed cheesy to you, but it's a very hard stone for DM's to swallow when they have to so obviously sacrifice their module's "suspension of disbelief" just so the party isnt wiped out. Same thing for the large amount of NPC interaction.

Well for the most part it will just take time and patience on the parts of both the players and the DM but eventually you will get a good rapport going and set a standard for gameplay that will keep everyone happy.

 

[reapersaurus]

Thanks, balrog and pielorhino, and others.

Amazing.
I simply post the facts of the 3 sessions thus far, and not only does the DM have a "great story going", but I shouldn't 2nd guess his performance, or even try to get recommendations about how he could be runnning it better.

More facts:
We're all close friends and "Bob" is the DM.
I have repeatedly tried to get him to read these boards the past year and a half to get a better understanding of the rules.
He has refused, basically portraying anyone who listens to how other people do things as an idiot.
He doesn't believe in seeing how things actually are supposed to work, or learning from others.
He'd rather spend precious minutes looking stuff up in-game (and quote them to us) than just KNOW the rules.

We've been playing for years.
We'll still be playing whatever you guys say.
He's mainly a GURPS and Champions DM (also 1e and 2E as well as playing in 3E for a year and a half) that leans towards skill-checks and role-playing.
That's not a surrise to me.

What is a surprise to me is that he would even wade into D&D 3E combat mechanics if he knows them that little.
_I'm_ not the one forcing us into combat, guys.
I'm just playing a role-playing little gnome wizard that tries to involve his NPC's and the inexperienced players (our wives).
It's Bob that is plopping us into these out-of-control combats, which each have plainly demonstrated his lack of combat experience.

I have repeatedly offered my help on this front, as I am more knowledgable about 3E rules (based mainly on my efforts in reading and on these very boards).
We have had hours of conversation about players helping out a DM. So far, he hasn't accepted the help.

If he wants to play a role-playing, no-dice game, I'd be reluctantly willing to throw out the rulebooks and do so, but Bob says he wants to play the 3E combat system.

You know what?
I don't think you guys can help me.
Thanks for reading, though, and thanks for some of your input to help me work thru these game sessions (he's usually a MUCH better DM, BTW).

 

[Pielorinho]

Reaper, I guess i think of it like this:

I might invite you to a dinner party. In an alternate universe, I might not be the amazing cook that I really am , and I might feed you not-so-good food.

The lasagne might be made with frozen spinach and low-fat cheese, and the noodles might be overcooked. I might make the salad with iceberg lettuce and storebought dressing. I might serve a loaf of that prefab, presliced, prebuttered "garlic bread" that haunts the shelves at the local Sav-a-Center. I might even, shudder, buy nasty wine-in-a-jug to serve.

Nonetheless, I invited you to a dinner party, and you accepted. If I found out that you posted to a message board saying, "Critique my host's cooking skills," and described my dinner in unflattering terms and asked people to count the number of mistakes I'd made in cooking a meal for you, I'd be hella mad.

I kinda see what you've done here as similar. This isn't an appropriate tone or method for dealing with your problems with the DM's style.

I stand by my original suggestions: apologize for being really rude, and then work with the DM to solve the problems.

Daniel

 

[Thebalrog]

Although I understand Pielorinho's position having been in it myself, I do disagree with him.

Playing D&D is a great experience for me, it always has been weather I take the part of the DM or the player. But everyone I've ever played with has always understood that there is just as much if not more responsibility to being a DM as there is to being a player.

Both the DM and the players are there to have fun and no matter what side I'm on I consider it a succesful gaming session only if both items occur.

Additionally DM's don't usually want to be bad DM's and most will, even if they don't show it, appreciate the player feedback which is a very important part of the DMing process.

Furthermore I think you bringing the issue to the message boards first rather then to the group is also a better descision then one you could have made. Even if you were endlessly trash talking this person (which you havnt been), none of us know who he is so it's not exactly a slur on his name which is something it could be construed as if it were brought up in the group.

Pretty much every person in my group has DMed at one time or another. Some are good at it, some are not, but all of them have been pretty receptive to player feedback and suggestions in fact, at the cost of looking like they are not fully prepared, they will most of the time just ask me about a rule, instead of taking the much longer time to look it up themselves and thus slowing the game down.

But the qualities you described in your last post are the mark of a pigheaded person that is NOT receptive to helpful player feedback or suggestions that would help improve the gameplay environment for everyone. Based on those and also the comments you made about your own knowledge of 3e in particular I would honestly say that it does sound like you might want to try your hand at DMing the group for a bit as you might be quite a bit better at it, because "Bob" seems to be unfamiliar with 3e rules, being that he is partial to other games.

So to reitterate I do think that playing D&D is a two-way street and just as the players are responsible for being curteous and appreciative to the DM the DM is responsible for knowing the rules and making the players environment believable and fun.

 

[Schmoe]

It sounds to me like your DM has a couple of areas he could work on. First, it seems as though he is afraid to let the events in the game affect his storyline too much. Witness the use of the Druid relative to whisk away the body of the NPC.

He also needs some more experience with 3E combat, both in terms of balancing encounters and in terms of using opponents to the best of their abilities.

Finally, he is having difficulty with pacing and creating "realistic" reactions to the events in the game. Witness the druid's quick appearance when the ranger called for him, as well as the NPC cleric racing toward the temple with no warning.

The amount of experience given to the ranger is the DM's call, and a player should only criticize a DM in this area in very unusual circumstances.

That being said, if you haven't approached your DM and tried to help him work on areas you perceive as weaknesses, then you are doing the game more of a disservice than he. I think he has weaknesses, and I think that it will take time to improve upon them, but I think it can be done.

Just my .02.

 

[kamosa]

You know what?
I don't think you guys can help me.

If you were not going to listen to the feedback, why did you ask?

Anyway, give the guy a break. Does it really hurt anyone if the monsters pull up just a bit, or he screws up the number of actions per round? The point is, you're there to have fun and enjoy the story and the game, not to hypernitpick the GMing.

It sounds like the guy just needs some time to adjust to the new rules and learn how to manage the encounters. Smile and accept that playing with this GM is worth going through his 3E growing pains or find a new GM.

 

[reapersaurus]

Daniel - that's an interesting analogy.
I don't know how applicable it is, but it might be in the ballpark...

Anyway, again, thank you, Balrog, and any others.
What I mean by "You guys can't help me" is that you aren't in the game, and it's of course up to me to find a way to broach his "mistakes" (or however you would view them) and help him make a better campaign, or to not say anything and just take whatever fun I can eke out of the sessions.

Both approaches are problematic.

I can reply to individual posts and follow-ups as I get time (if people want), but I don't feel like continuing the thread unless asked.

Thanks again for the variety of different styles of help working this out, guys.

 

[JLXC]

I think the DM could have prepared more and did a better job.

First encounter for 3 1st level PC's is 9 ORCs? 9? TPK anyone?

Too much NPC's saving the bacon action. Come on. I guess the heroes learned that when the going gets tough, the higher level guys come in and take care of business?

I am pro DM for sure, but this guys just didn't put enough thought into this "adventure" IMHO.

1st level is a special time, when the team learns Teamwork with eachother and learns a bit about being a hero. Go easy, there are probably baclksmiths tougher than the PC's at 1st level. I dunno, done better it could have been great but As Is I have to give the DM 6.0 out of 10, and that's only because of the "he don't DM 3E much" comment from the player.