cross gender fun?

[LostSoul]

Most females I know don't do violence casually or for entertainment. Most of us need to get real worked up and invested before we get violent, and then it's not for fun, it's for keeps.

Implicit in this statement is that men do violence casually and for entertainment; that men do not need to get "real worked up" or invested before they get violent, and that it's for fun. I don't think you meant to attack men, but your statement could easily be seen that way.

I don't have any problem with people playing against gender, or stereotypes, or gender stereotypes, as long as it doesn't piss me off or bother other people at the game.

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

I played a young woman named Cordelia in an old WEG Star Wars game. Her father was a pretty well-known bountyhunter and died at the hands of his dead wife's angry brother (also a bountyhunter). Cordelia immediately took on her father's identity in a desperate attempt to keep his legend alive. Since she wore full body armor with a helmet that distorted her voice, no one knew the difference. The campaign died before she got the chance to reveal herself, so it never became much of an issue ingame. The other player only found out about her secret a few years after the campaign had ended. I always liked that character though.
I also played a female aasimar cleric in a pbem. She was pretty fun to play as well. Torn between following the peaceful ideals of her religion and becoming violent in order to bring justice to those who commit evil acts.

I just started DMing a new campaign and there are a lot of important female NPCS. The most prominent, so far, does have a female partner, but the players probably won't notice anything out of the ordinary about her unless they run into her too (a tiefling who runs a weapons store), as the usually gruff NPC softens up a little around her. Awwww. Neither of them are stereotypical in any way.
That goes triple for the girl from the players' home village who rose as a (good) crypt spawn after being killed, and follows them around sobbing about her condition until they find a "cure". Hehe.

As for my players, I wouldn't let the younger ones play as females because they can barely play human males realistically, and that's what they ARE!
If one of the others wanted to have a go at it I'd probably let them though. It's no biggie, as long as they're going to be serious about it and not turn it into a big (not very funny) joke.

Obviously though, if you play with people that would take offense at someone being allowed to play a cross-gender character, but not them because they aren't as good a player... Better to completely disallow it. It is the DM's call, I suppose. Every group is different, and some won't be able to handle it maturely.
Having said that, I prefer to play male characters, that's what I am, that's what I know best. It's just nice to flex your acting muscle occasionally.

 

[Tsyr]

Maybe some of the difference in my perspective vrs, say, Billy's, is that around here, we have... um... I guess the best way of describing it is a "tough crowd".

I live in a fairly small, fairly religious town, that still has it's share of "DnD is Evil" people, sadly. So there is no board down at the local gaming shop to find groups or players... heck, there is no local gaming shop, except for a Sam Goody that carries a few odd products. You find out about gaming groups through word of mouth, and you can't be afraid to travel a bit... there are basicly a half a dozen towns in a 60-mile radius that all have the same "pool" of gamers... One person drives 40 miles to my games, another drives 30... And I drive 40 miles to a game I play in. You don't even get started unless your serious about it. Not to say we don't have many gamers or anything, we do... I know of at least 40 or so that would make up my "potential gamer pool"... but it's a bit more work. And while people do move away or quit gaming, we are never at risk of running out of gamers... enough "recruiters" in the local school systems (Sons or younger brothers of older gamers, and indeed a few of our regulars are still in highschool) ensure that there is always a crop of gamers "on deck", if you will.

Likewise, because of the effort involved in gaming, there is a very low tollerance for the idiots, jerks, uber-power-munch-lawers, immature kids who can't hear the word "sex" without laughing, etc. You make no friends, and very quickly you stop getting invited to the group. Said players, after having worn out their welcome two or three times, tend to congregate in their own groups... such groups, when I have sat in on them, tend to be very monty-haulish... people killing pit fiends at fourth level with a dagger, for example. The rest of the groups continue on.

So the end result is that people who portray things badly and offend people just don't last. Rather than enforce house rules to deal with people, we just deal with the people directly. It's better, in the long run... you can stop a player from playing females badly, but you can't stop them from PLAYING badly... and like others have said, if they botch females that bad, that isn't their only problem. So rather than spoil the fun of the entire group and set a bad precedent, we just take the player aside, tell him that he isn't really fitting in to our play style, and give him a session or two to "clean up", and failing that, he's out.

I've only ever had to do that one time as a DM, and no, it wasn't fun. I didn't feel good about being an "elitist snob" or something like that. It was something that I felt had to be done, and did it. I know other DMs have done it too. But overall, I feel it is a better solution than to get soured on something we enjoy because of a bad player.

 

[Ashtal]

I don't restrict people on what gender they can play, and I wouldn't play in a game that didn't let me choose what gender I want to have for my character.

I find it odd, really, to see that some folks need to impose that on others. Equally odd that gender is the only one so imposed. There are many ways that people are different. Why is one more intrisincally 'alien' and 'unallowable' than others?

If there is no difference in the rules for playing male-female (and that's not necessarily the case, depending on the game world which may restrict classes or organizations by gender), then how does it hurt having the choice? If it's purely cosmetic, what difference does it make? Would it stop you from playing a Con game, if there were cross-gender players, simply by how the pregen characters were handed out?

(All I know, is that if someone at the table told me I couldn't play Bob the Mage because I'm a girl, I'd pop 'em in the nose!)

I had a blast with my honorable Male Half-Orc fighter. Ooh, he was fun.

Gender is cosmetic. And as a gamer, I don't like restrictions on the creation of my characters based on someone else's hangups or bad experiences with bad players. Judge me by me, and what I can do!

 

[Mark Chance]

Besides, it doesn't sound right when you got a guy's voice covering the actions of a woman.

That's long been my problem with watching Tom Cruise act.

 

[Gez]

Our group never had a problem with it. We're all both GM and players, depending on the game (OK, some are rarely GMs), and noone put restrictions.

My PCs are usually male, but I've had some female ones.

Sometimes it's because of the name. I often have a hard time finding a good name for a character, one that stick to the concept; and if the first I find is rather feminine, my character will be female.

My first D&D3 character was a female gnome wizard. I just love gnomes. I choose a female one so as to avoid annoying comments on the "bearded garden gnome"... She feels a bit lonesome, having seen something like 2 gnomes since she adventures...

Another female D&D character of mine is so because we wanted to have a "familial campaign", where all characters would be parents to each other. They were going to be all brothers and sisters; but I proposed a wed couple also. The girl in the group found it would be a good idea; so we decided that both our characters would be wed. And, the fun part is, since she nearly always play cross-gender, she wanted that the wife character be rolled randomly !

 

[Mark Chance]

Hardly...

Gender is cosmetic.

Gender is not cosmetic. It is the most basic defining force behind both a person's biology and psychology. While other forces can mitigate the very real force that gender exerts on psychology, it remains a force nonetheless.

The idea that gender is a social construct (which isn't necessarily the assumption at work in the quote above, but it does seem to lean that way) is an archaic product of Marxist interpretation of psychology, and it is thoroughly discredited in the field (although still wildly popular in pseudo-academic programs such as women's studies).

 

[Balsamic Dragon]

In my games and in most of the games that I play in, we usually (but not always) have one or two characters who are cross-gendered. Personally, I think it is an interesting part of role-playing. Perhaps not as analogous to playing a dwarf or an elf, but more analogous to playing a real world racial minority or someone of a different real world religion. It's an opportunity for roleplaying and it is fun.

To Teflon Billy:

I've seen players of the type that you have had to deal with. I've gamed with them and for them. I tend to be a fairly harsh GM when it comes to players being disgusting and rude for no other reason than to diminish the enjoyment of the game for everyone else. I kick them out and they don't get invited back. If I'm the player, I inform the GM that if they don't shape up, then I will no longer play. Despite this, I find that I am rarely short of players or GMs to game with.

I disagree with your policy, because it punishes everyone because of the bad behavior of a few. It means that other people don't get to roleplay because a few people are incapable of doing so. To me, that diminishs the whole game. However, if you yourself are uncomfortable with other players cross-gendering, then just say so! The GM has as much right to enjoy the game as the players, and everyone has issues that they would prefer not to see in a roleplaying game. I do as well. You can play transvestites, lesbians and strange alien hive minds in my game and I won't mind, but I will not allow a character whose central theme/motive is rape. It isn't something I like, and therefor it doesn't get in. So if your policy is a result of having survived and being sick of a number of bad experiences and, as a result, simply not enjoying cross-gender playing no matter how skilled the RP is, that's fine. But if you refuse to give new players the benefit of the doubt and assume that old players will never mature past the mental age of 14, then you may be doing some of your players a disservice. And if you allow those players who refuse to mature to control the way your game is run, I'd say you'd be better off finding new players.

Balsamic Dragon

 

[Balsamic Dragon]

Re: Hardly...

Gender is not cosmetic. It is the most basic defining force behind both a person's biology and psychology. While other forces can mitigate the very real force that gender exerts on psychology, it remains a force nonetheless.

The idea that gender is a social construct (which isn't necessarily the assumption at work in the quote above, but it does seem to lean that way) is an archaic product of Marxist interpretation of psychology, and it is thoroughly discredited in the field (although still wildly popular in pseudo-academic programs such as women's studies).

This kind of thing is simply an attempt to start a flamewar and is not particularly condusive to the thread. Please take your political/sociological views elsewhere.

Balsamic Dragon

 

[mirzabah]

Besides, it doesn't sound right when you got a guy's voice covering the actions of a woman.

Bah humbug!