Crossbow fighting ranger

[Khitan]

Hi everybody^^

Next week I'm going to start a Pathfinder campaign starting with 7th level characters and I'm searching for something interesting to play^^
Browsing the core rulebook I stopped at the dwarven ranger image and I instantly fell in love with it!

Now I'm asking you: knowing that I can use only the core rulebook and the APG (but not the base classes of the APG, don't ask me why xD) how can I make a good ranger with the Crossbow Fighting Style? I know that bows are better than crossbows but I can't stand bows and for my dwarf ranger I think that a havy crossbow just fits bettere xD

Some help please? I don't need to be "the strongest ranger in the entire world", I just need to be good at using crossbows and the usual ranger stuff...

 

[Drathir]

crossbow mastery... bows are still a little bit better since they get str but a d12 in a full atk is still nice...

 

[LogantheBard]

My wife's playing a Crossbow ranger in our game. She wasn't much on regular bows either. The biggest benefit of xbows is that you can (to a point) dump strength. This gives her more stat points to put into Con, Int, and Wis for more HP/Skills/Spells. You're never going to match a Mighty Composite Bow for damage output, but you'll be more versatile and useful to your party. Being able to lay prone and snipe is a pretty sweet upside too!

3.X stuff had some pretty nifty crossbow feats if any of that is allowed in the game.

The only thing that I changed/added to give the crossbow a bit of an edge, I made a parallel Vital Strike chain of feats that applied to Crossbow shots in point blank range, so she can still be mobile.


There's also the dual hand crossbow pistolier type... terribly ineffective imo, but oh so cool

 

[Dingo333]

My suggestion.

Drop ranger, go fighter: Crossbowman archtype

More feats and weapon specializations are huge boons

A heavy Repeating Crossbow
+10/+10/+5 for shots in a full round (add +1 to all if in 30ft)
1d10+6 for damage (+1 if in 30ft)

1: (half elf or human bonus) exotic proficency repeating heavy crossbow
1: Weapon Focus
2: Point Blank Shot
3: Precise Shot
4: Weapon Specialization
5: Rapid Reload
6: Point Blank Master (to be replaced later when you have safe shot class ability 13)
7: Rapid Shot

Dip a level for wizard or sorcerer and get gravity bow spell (ranger and wiz/sorc level 1 spell) vanish is also great for stealthing/sniping

In this way, a high dex is all you actually need. Do note though that you lose armor training and so you need light armor/mithral armor to make best use of the Dex. Also, since a lot of bonuses are based on readied actions, high init is also good

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Feats:
1 Point Blank Shot
2 Rapid Reload (Heavy Crossbow) [Ranger]
3 Rapid Shot
5 Precise Shot
6 Improved Precise Shot [Ranger]
7 Crossbow Master (Heavy Crossbow)

...Or whatever order you prefer. IPS and Crossbow Master are your level 6 and 7 feats (respectively), though.

Get a wand of Gravity Bow. Since you only need one handto shoot your crossbow, you can even walk around with loaded xbow in one hand, buckler and wand in the other, and just drop the wand when you need to reload. Now you're doing 3d6 per shot, which is pretty snazzy. Your level 9 feat should be Weapon Focus and at level 10, I'd use the Ranger bonus feat on Point Blank Master. (It technically says archer rangers can select it, but IMO it's purely oversight that Crossbow wasn't mentioned, since the two weapon styles' feats are so similar and there's nothing inherently safer about shooting a bow in melee than there is a crossbow). If DM doesn't allow PBM for crossbow, then take Deadly Aim at level 9 instead of Weapon Focus.

Play to the strengths of your weapon and race. A crossbow can be fired prone, so if you get in a shootout, drop prone (it's a free action!) for a nice +4 AC bonus. A crossbow unlike a bow has a respectable crit range, so consider giving your crossbow the keen enhancement so it threatens on a 17+. Get a wand of darkness or an allied caster to cast it on a pebble or clothing item, something you can pull out when needed to exploit your darkvision.

 

[Thanael]

To the OP: Check out Treantmonk's Guide to Rangers. Though the guide above does not yet take into consideration the new material that got added in APG and later. The Ranger's Crossbow Weapon Style for example. Also some use the archery style if they're going to use a crossbow. The function of the style is that it allows you to pick up some feats earlier than others and without meeting all the prereqs.

Note that PF made the switch hitter build viable again.

 

[Khitan]

Thanks everybody for the replies^^

I was considering the switch hitter build but I'm not certain if it would work with the crossbow style instead of the archery... Do you think that using the archery style to be a switch hitter but with the crossbow instead of the bow would work? Because many of the archery bonus feats aren't usefull for crossbows...

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Archers are better for switch hitting because they actually have a reason for a str score. If you're doing crossbow, your str should be like 10-12, and lower if you can start with a handy haversack. Doing melee is bad for you, unless you raise your str for no benefit to your crossbow fighting abilities at all.

And I don't like switch hitters, other than just carrying a 2H backup weapon. Archery, as you can see, is stupidly feat hungry. Even if switch hitting means only burning 1 feat into Power Attack, that's still 1 feat too many, IMO.

Also, once you get Point Blank Master, there really isn't a reason to switch hit ever again...

 

[Khitan]

Ok… I think I found what I was looking for^^ Maybe it's not the most optimized character I could build but, since I actually don't care about optimization and I really wanted a Dwarf Ranger with a Bulldog Mastiff as animal companion and a big, heavy crossbow^^ that's the best I can do…
Obviously critics and suggestions are welcome xD

To understand the character you must know a few things:
1) In our party there's only one melee character (a TWF warrior). There could be the cleric but knowing the player he won't be nothing more than a healbot^^" Then there's a mage and a ranged rogue… so I wanted to be able to switch to melee when needed. I focus more on the crossbow (not following the typical switch hitter build) but if I see that my fellow fighter is in trouble I want to be able to go helping him, taking some hits out of his back xD

2) My GM told me that we are going to fight mostly against humans, orcs and demons… that's for my choices for favored enemies and for the "particular" ability of the crossbow.

3) I know that the cheetah is the better choice for an animal companion but come on! A dwarf with a cat?? Seriously? I think a Bandog (Pittbull Mastiff, one of my favorite dogs ever xD) is reaaaally more "in character" don't you think?^^

Knowing that let's go with the build…

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Karaz "K" a'Karak
Male Dwarf Ranger 7
LN Medium Humanoid
Init. +6;

DEFENSE

AC 22, touch 13, flat footed 19
(+8 armor, +3 des, +1 shield)
hp 7d10 + 21
Fort. +8 Ref. +9 Will. +4 (+2 racial against spells, +2 trait against demon mind-control abilities, +2 Iron Will for 70 minutes a day)

OFFENSE

Spd. 20 ft.
Ranged Heavy Crossbow Demon's Bane +1 +12/+7 (1d10+1)
Melee Greataxe +1 +10/+5 (1d12+5)

STATISTICS
Str. 16 Dex. 18 Con. 17 Int. 10 Wis. 14 Cha. 8
Base Atk. +7/+2 CMB +10 CMD 23
Feats Power Attack, Vital Strike, Precise Shot (ranger), Deadly Aim, Crossbow Mastery (ranger), Endurance (ranger)
Skills Acrobatics +3, Handle Animal +8, Knowledge (nature) +6, Knowledge (planes) +6, Stealth +10, Intimidate +5, Perception +12, Climb +5, Survival +12
Language Common, Dwarf
Gear "Cure Light Wounds" wand, "Gravity Bow" wand, Belt of incredible dexterity +2, Handy Haversack, +2 Breastplate, masterwork Buckler, +1 Demon's Bane Heavy Crossbow, +1 Greataxe, 2 Kukri, Throwing Axe + stuff (like bolts, pouch, oil, etc…)

Favored Enemies: Humans (+4), Orcs (+2)
Traits: Outlander - Exile, Asmodean Demon Hunter
Archetipe: Ranger Infiltrator. Adaptation Choosen: Humans - Iron Will

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

DISDAIN
Medium Animal (dog)
Init. +3 Senses Low Light Vision, scent, perception +6

DEFENSE

AC 17, touch 13, flat footed 14
hp 4d8 + 16
Fort. +7 Ref. +7 Will +2

OFFENSE

Spd. 40 ft.
Melee bite 1d6+6

STATISTICS

Str. 18 Dex. 16 Con. 18 Int. 2 Wis. 12 Cha. 6
Base Atk. +3 CMB +7 CMD 20
Feats Power Attack, Improved Overrun
Skills Perception +6, Survival +3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, that's it^^
Basically I should be able to deal with all the 3 main enemy types that I will encounter (favored enemy for humans and orcs, demon's bane crossbow for demons). I'm not actually sure about my choices for favored enemies and the bane ability… another possible choice could be Favored Enemy Demon (+4), favored enemy humans (+2) and orc's bane crossbow (and that would be better for BG's reasons)… the thing is that I feel that demons will be more dangerous than the other 2 and so +2d6 damage against them it's a good thing xD On the other hand I don't know how many demons (compared to how many orcs or humans) are we going to fight (its an old Dragon Magazine's adventure, I don't know which one^^) and wasting 6000 golds to buy an ability that I'm not going to use much makes my heart cry… But I'm still thinking about it (and eventually, when I start playing, I can always ask the GM to make me switch after the first sessions, maybe she will be kind xD)

I know that i don't do much damage with the crossbow but using Gravity Bow and Deadly Aim I'll be be able to make 2 attacks at +10/+5 (2d8 + 5) plus 4 damage against humans, 2 against orcs and 2d6 against demons. Eventually, if I need to move, I can use Vital Strike making one attack at +10 (4d8 + 5) plus the favored enemy/demon's bane damage.

If I need to go into melee combat, with Power Attack, I can still make 2 attack at +8/+3 (1d12 + 11) or one attack with Vital Strike (the round that i switch weapons, if I charge or if I have to move) at +8 (2d12 + 11)…
I choose the greataxe instead of the more powerful falchion (better critical threat) only because there are no 2H greathammers in the core rulebook and the APG and I seriously can't see a dwarf with a blade… yes, maybe it's a cliché… but it's a cliché I like^^
Not the most powerful build ever but not too bad (at least fo my tastes^^)

I choose to leave Rapid Shot behind because I needed to be able to switch to melee, so I needed some melee feats, if necessary and I tried to make up with Vital Strike…

Choosing the Dog instead of the Cheetah was just because I LOVE big dogs and for my ranger it seemed a lot more characteristic xD I choose the Improved Overrun to give him some tactic capacity (hoping in high die rolls to knock enemies to the ground) and the Power Attack because it was a prerequisite for Improved Overrun…

Comments? Critics? Spill your hate on me xD

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

"Demon" isn't a valid choice for bane. You probably want Evil Outsider. Or chaotic outsider, but you'd get far more mileage out of the former.