Crossbow or Longbow?

[Gothmog]

Crossbows under the core rules absolutely stink- there is no way anyone other than a low-level character would ever use one. What I did was to house-rule crossbows so that they are worthwhile for a character of ANY level.

First, crossbows get a +2 circumstance bonus to hit vs anyone in armor. This does not include natural armor however. This reflects the fact that crossbows can punch through layers of armor pretty easily.

Second, light crossbows inflict 1d8 damage, heavy 1d10. In addition, while iterative attacks are not possible with crossbows, I do allow a character to make multiple attack rolls if he would normally be allowed them. In order for the bolt to strike, the first attack roll must hit- if it doesn't hit, then the bolt misses completely. For each attack that "hits", the bolt inflicts its base damage. Only the first attack can cause a critical hit, and if it does, the damage for ONLY the first bolt is multiplied. This reflects that the experienced crossbow sniper is able to precisely place his bolt, thus causing more damage.

For example- a fighter with +14/+9+/+4 with his light crossbow would roll his first attack (+14) to determine if he struck the target. If so, then he rolls his second and third attacks against the target's same AC. For each attack that "hits", he inflicts 1d8 damage. So if only the first attack hits, he does 1d8; two attacks=2d8; and 3 attacks that hit=3d8.

So far, this has worked well for our group, and makes crossbowmen something to be feared, rather than scoffed at. There is no reason why a crossbowman should be penalized when a bowman has no restrictions on him. Sure, the crossbow guy can potentially do more damage in a single hit, but he can't spread his fire out amongst enemies, or use rapid shot.

 

[rijeagle]

A bit besides the point but a 10th level Deepwood sniper could have a 15-20/x4 crit range and multiplier. Pick up epic levels in the prestige class and the x4 can go up even more.

As long as your character is above 20th level, you can get epic feats, otherwise, they are not allowed in levels 1-20. Other than that, yea, the Deepwood Sniper is an awesome crossbow shot.

There is a feat called Rapid Reload, allowing a light crossbow to be reloaded as a free action, taking an AoO, thus allowing multiple shots per round if you take the Rapid Shot feat along with it. (assuming the DM has no problem applying it to crossbows.) If not, the long bow is the way to go if you want multiple shots per round. Also there is a feat called Many Shots which allows you to shoot up to four arrows at one time (a la Robin Hood in Prince of Thieves)with a bow.

In general most range weapon feats are favorable towards the bow and not the crossbow. If your DM is a stickler for rules, then go the Long/Short bow route for the greatest benefits.

Of course if you're going to be a fighter, why worry about ranged attacks, grab all the weapon focus, specialization, etc in a melee weapon and start bashing, and let the rogue/ranger take the range attacks(if there is one in the group).

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Cross bows do have their uses, the hefty damage and low learning threshold is nice, but I think they work better as a neat trick for a fighter rather than as a focus.

Two potential avenues for neatness come to mind:

1.) Crossbows make nice pre-melee/surprise weapons since they can be adjusted to hold a quarrel in the ready position for some time. This has loads of problems in the real world, but it has a lot of dramatic appropriateness. Particularly with mounted crossbows on carts and hand crossbows in sleeves. Under a willing DM there might be feats for gaining initiative advantages with crossbows or an extra crossbow attack as long as you had the crossbow prepped and were willing to abandon it before going on to other actions.

2.) You could make the a character based around trick quarrells. A heavy crossbow is capable of firing some nasty amunition.

 

[Tylias Quill]

I houserule that crossbows can be made mighty, up to +2 for light crossbows and up to +4 for heavy crossbows. The long reload time reflects the fact that most crossbow wielders couldn't ready one through sheer strength, but used mechanical aid to store more potential energy in the shot than they could as bowmen.

warrior class PC's still have relatively little reason to use crossbows rather than bows, but some of the other classes like this option. It also makes relatively untrained NPC's a threat at range.

It's just a houserule.

 

[Gort]

Wow, Gothmog. That's an excellent system.

Good job, I think I'll use that.

One question though - why are crits restricted to only the first bolt? Shouldn't it be that any attack you crit on gets its damage doubled?

 

[Zhure]

More reasons to be a Fighter focused on crossbows:

- Crossbows have marginally superior range over bows.
- It's unique. When a +3 crossbow shows up in the treasure, it's probably yours.
- Only crossbows can be loosed while prone. To truly take advantage of this Prone Fighting (which is a Fighter Bonus Feat, IIRC) can allow a crossbow user to boost his effective AC by 4, then stand up as a free action with a successful attack. (Prone Fighting doesn't specify a melee attack).
- Slightly higher base damage for crossbows over bows.

 

[diaglo]

More reasons to be a Fighter focused on crossbows:

- Crossbows have marginally superior range over bows.
- It's unique. When a +3 crossbow shows up in the treasure, it's probably yours.
- Only crossbows can be loosed while prone. To truly take advantage of this Prone Fighting (which is a Fighter Bonus Feat, IIRC) can allow a crossbow user to boost his effective AC by 4, then stand up as a free action with a successful attack. (Prone Fighting doesn't specify a melee attack).
- Slightly higher base damage for crossbows over bows.

all of these are good points. but in truth they are best for the nonfighter classes as they are simple weapons.

the range issue is somewhat problematic. many encounters fall too short for the true benefit of range.

prone works great for ambush. but again, it is hard to get a situation to work normally.

and the base damage is better. if you don't normally have a lot of available mighty bows.

as for unique. well everyone can use them. so you may have to speak up.

 

[Gothmog]

Thanks Gort. The main reason I only allow crits on the first die roll (the one that determines if the bolt hit) is because critting on any roll seems a little overpowered in combination with the +2 bonus to hit anyone in armor. Without the +2 bonus though, I think allowing a crit on any attack roll would be fine.