Crossbow PrC

Shirt Guy John

First Post
While over in the Rules forum, I read through the thread about why not to take crossbows or something, and it got me thinking. Not only are crossbows' only real advantage in their ability to be picked up and used by just about anyone, but they are completely devoid of PrCs devoted to the use of them. Bows have three classes, one of which(Arcane Archer) requires the use of bows, though the other two(Order of the Bow Initiate and Deepwood Sniper) seem(at a glance) to function better for a character who uses bows. I decided to try my hand at creating a viable crossbow-based PrC.

Crossbow Tactician
===================

Requirements:
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*Race: Human, Elf, or Half-Elf
*Base Attack Bonus: +5
*Sneak Attack +3d6
*4 ranks Spot
*6 ranks Craft(Weaponsmith)
*Proficient with Heavy Crossbow and Light Crossbow
*Feats: Weapon Focus(any crossbow), Point Blank Shot, Rapid Reload

Base Attack Bonus: As Fighter(+1/level)
Saves: As Rogue(Refl High)
Hit Dice: d8
Skill Points: 4+Int. Modifier
Class Skills: Bluff(Cha), Climb(Str), Craft(Weaponsmith)(Int), Hide(Dex), Proffesion(Wis), Listen(Wis), Ride(Dex), Spot(Wis), Tumble(Dex), Use Magic Device(Cha).

Abilities:
-----------------------------
1-Bolt Proficiency,
2-Lucky Shot 1/day
3-Hit the Deck
4-Sneak Attack +1d6
5-Craft Mighty-Draw Crossbow, Deadly Bolts +1
6-Lucky Shot 2/day
7-In the Thick
8-Sneak Attack +2d6
9-Deadly Bolts +2
10-Confident Shot, Lucky Shot 3/day
-----------------------------
Bolt Proficiency(Ex): The Crossbow Tactician can use crossbow bolts as melee weapons(see pg.99 PH) with proficiency, ignoring the normal penalty for using them as melee weapons.

Lucky Shot(Su): Once per day, a 2nd level Crossbow Tactician can reroll a single crossbow attack roll. He must keep the result of the reroll even if it is worse than the original roll. This ability can be used twice per day at 6th level and three times per day at 10th level.

Hit the Deck(Ex): Once per combat, when a character makes a succesful melee attack roll against the Crossbow Tactician, he(the CT) may choose to fall prone and treat the attack as a miss.

Sneak Attack(Ex): As a Rogue's sneak attack. These bonus die stack with any sneak attack dice from other classes.

Craft Mighty-Draw Crossbow(Ex): The Crossbow Tactician learns to modify crossbows to have a greater pull, and to thus deal greater amounts of damage. Mighty-Draw Crossbows are detailed below.

Mighty-Draw Crossbow:
----------------------
Mighty-Draw Crossbows are created to have a greater pull, and to thus deal greater amounts of damage. The enhanced pull for each level of Mighty-Draw Crossbow means that it requires greater strength to load. Each level of extra damage carries with it a Str requirement to load the crossbow, though once loaded, any character can use the crossbow and gain the extra damage.
Mighty-Draw Light Crossbows:
*+1 damage; required Str 13+, cost +100gp.
*+2 damage; requires Str 15+, cost +200gp.
Mighty-Draw Heavy Crossbows:
*+1 damage; requires Str 13+, Cost +100gp.
*+2 damage; requires Str 15+, Cost +200gp.
*+3 damage; requires Str 17+, Cost +300gp.
*+4 damage; requires Str 19+, Cost +400gp.
Craft(Weaponsmith) DC for Might-Draw Crossbows = 15 + 2/point damage bonus.

Deadly Bolts(Ex): The Crossbow Tactician learns to make his bolts strike better at his opponents' weak spots. The critical multiplier for all crossbow bolts fired by the Crossbow Tactician increases by +1(so a light crossbow changes from x2 to x3). At 9th level, this bonus increases to +2(x2 changes to x4).

In the Thick(Ex): The Crossbow Tactician learns to better fight with his crossbows while in close-quarters combat. He no longer suffers an attack of opportunity when loading or firing a crossbow in melee. In addition, if he makes a crossbow attack from prone position against a target who is standing within 5ft., the target loses his dexterity bonus to AC.

Confident Shot(Su): Once per day, the Crossbow Tactician can declare a single attack with a crossbow to be an automatic threat before he makes the attack roll. If the attack is successful, he rolls to confirm the critical hit, regardless whether the actual attack roll was a threat.

Well that's it. Questions? Comments? Underpowered? Overpowered? About the only thing that I really doubt as an ability is the "In the Thick" second half about opponents losing their Dex bonus to AC.
 

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"*Race: Human, Elf, or Half-Elf"

This I do not like. Elves using Crossbows?! They get MW: Bows as a racial bonus... it'd be silly for them to use Crossbows.

Now, Gnomes, Dwarves and Humans using Crossbows -- that I could see.

Advice: either eliminate the Race requirement, or specifically exclude Elves.

"In the Thick(Ex)"

This is a WEEE bit overpowered, espeicially given the 3d6 Sneak Attack requirement.

-- Nifft
 

The idea of a character dropping to the ground to fire at a target 5' away strikes me as silly as well. Drop To The Ground sounds more suited for a technique used against ranged attacks.

The requirements for the class seem awfully high. 3d6 sneak attack will force what, 5 levels of rogue? But there are 3 feats required, and BAB +5, which would require another two additional levels, either to Rogue 7 or Rogue 5/Fighter 2.

If you want to get technical, I don't think there is really a reason why high-power crossbows are impossible (for anyone to build or use!) except that they should possibly take longer to load. If the crossbow had the right type of device for pulling back the string - a cranequin, for instance - I don't think you'd even need high strength, it would just take a bit longer. Anyhow, that was a digression, more to the point: don't require odd Str requirements, just base it off of Str bonus. It's just simpler that way.

I do like most of the abilities. What about being able to fire in melee without receiving an Attack of Opportunity, though?
 

I agree with the others, allowing Elves but barring Dwarves just strikes me as odd.

Also, this class seems odd. To qualify you will have to established yourself as a good Theif (sneak att +3d6) a decent warrior (BAB 5) but he needn't be particuliarly good with a crossbow or very tactical... (Precise Shot, Far Shot, Expert Tactician, Knowledge[Tactics]?)

Lastly, why would I take this PrC and not ask for my DM to loosen the resrictions on Peerless Archer, Deepwood Sniper, OoBI or Arcane Archer?

This PrC give you sneak attack, close quarters fighting, and an odd craft skill. With a few levels of a Crossbow-weilding Deepwood Sniper and a few more levels of OoBI I would get Ranged Sneak Attack (better then you PrC's SA) Close Combat (lvl 2 OBI vs lvl 7 your PrC).

All you have to do is go through the existing PrC's and replace every instance of bow with crossbow, and every mention of arrow with bolt.

IMC, I created the Marksmen of Clangadin, a dour order of Dwarven Arcane Archers. Prereq's were the same, except you had to be a Dwarf or Human, have the right patron deity, and cast divine spells... ah, and of course, use crossbows.
 

The idea of a character dropping to the ground to fire at a target 5' away strikes me as silly as well. [Hit the Deck] sounds more suited for a technique used against ranged attacks.

Yeah, I thought about that while I was typing, but my original concept was that the CT would drop out of the way of a melee attack, fall prone, and fire a bolt into their opponent from a surprise-like position.


The requirements for the class seem awfully high. 3d6 sneak attack will force what, 5 levels of rogue? But there are 3 feats required, and BAB +5, which would require another two additional levels, either to Rogue 7 or Rogue 5/Fighter 2.

Well if you're saying that they're too high for the what the class provides, then cool, I get to add more stuff :D.

If you want to get technical, I don't think there is really a reason why high-power crossbows are impossible (for anyone to build or use!) except that they should possibly take longer to load. If the crossbow had the right type of device for pulling back the string - a cranequin, for instance - I don't think you'd even need high strength, it would just take a bit longer. Anyhow, that was a digression, more to the point: don't require odd Str requirements, just base it off of Str bonus. It's just simpler that way.

Well, aside from my agreeing that they could probably be standard weapons anyways, I was thinking that the mighty-draw would either require a longer reload time(which would make crossbows insane), or more simply a minimum Str to draw it back to the required position. Hm.... I don't know, changing it to a Str mod would really have almost the same effect, but I happen to like the odd str requirements. I guess my feeling was that since a strong character could load a bunch of Mighty-Draw crossbows and then distribute them to his weaker allies, the requirement needed to be a little steeper, but not way different.

I do like most of the abilities.

Thanks, although a lot of this class was constructed with MotW turned to the Deepwood Sniper PrC, so a few abilities were borrowed from there.

What about being able to fire in melee without receiving an Attack of Opportunity, though?

Well, it's included in the "In the Thick" ability, if that's what you're asking. And as for "In the Thick"'s balance issue, I was thinking along the lines of the opponent's loss of dexterity to AC, not the firing/loading in melee part.

"*Race: Human, Elf, or Half-Elf"

This I do not like. Elves using Crossbows?! They get MW: Bows as a racial bonus... it'd be silly for them to use Crossbows.

This was more of a flavor-based decision(though I guess that would be hard to pick out without me including any flavor text at all). Really, I was thinking primarily for humans, but obviously Elves that turned away from their ancestral weapons could use this class, so I included them too.

Now, Gnomes, Dwarves and Humans using Crossbows -- that I could see.

Well, I was going to say that I had intended to exclude small races because they couldn't use the Heavy Crossbow, but now that I actually read the Heavy Crossbow entry, that's gone. Personally I picture a character with this class to be more agile and skilled, and I didn't see Dwarves and Half-Orcs that way. Now, though, I believe I'll eliminate the race requirement completely. *Poof* it's gone.

Advice: either eliminate the Race requirement, or specifically exclude Elves.

I did just that... the first part.


"In the Thick(Ex)"

This is a WEEE bit overpowered, espeicially given the 3d6 Sneak Attack requirement.

Alright. I'm thinking about combining "Hit the Deck" and the questionable part of "In the Thick" to bring the concept closer to what I had originally imagined. Here goes(I've listed both so you see the changes to each):

In the Thick: At 3rd level, the Crossbow Tactician learns to better fight with his crossbows while in close-quarters combat. He no longer suffers an attack of opportunity when loading or firing a crossbow in melee.

Hit the Deck: At 7th level, the Crossbow Tactician can duck an attack and imediately make a surprise attack with his crossbow, catching the attacker flat-footed. Once per combat, when an attack-either melee or ranged- would be successful against the Crossbow Tactician, he may choose to fall prone and make an immediate Attack of Opportunity with his Crossbow against the attacker(assuming he has any AoOs left for the round). The target is treated as flat-footed against this attack. (Note that normally a ranged weapon cannot be used for an AoO. This ability allows crossbow AoOs only in conjunction with this ability.)


Thanks Nifft and CCamfield.
 

That's what I get for taking so long to reply.

I agree with the others, allowing Elves but barring Dwarves just strikes me as odd.

Just fixed it. :D

Also, this class seems odd. To qualify you will have to established yourself as a good Theif (sneak att +3d6) a decent warrior (BAB 5) but he needn't be particuliarly good with a crossbow or very tactical... (Precise Shot, Far Shot, Expert Tactician, Knowledge[Tactics]?)

Well, as for the name, it really mean nothing. I couldn't think of an appropriate name on the fly, so I just picked something that sounded cool. Of the stuff you listed, though, I would only consider adding Precise Shot as a Req. With my now-modified "Hit the Deck", though, I might also add Combat Reflexes to the list.

Lastly, why would I take this PrC and not ask for my DM to loosen the resrictions on Peerless Archer, Deepwood Sniper, OoBI or Arcane Archer?

Well hopefully when I get done with it, you won't have to ask this question. BTW, what's a peerless archer? It's not in the materials I use, so I can't really judge it.

This PrC give you sneak attack, close quarters fighting, and an odd craft skill. With a few levels of a Crossbow-weilding Deepwood Sniper and a few more levels of OoBI I would get Ranged Sneak Attack (better then you PrC's SA) Close Combat (lvl 2 OBI vs lvl 7 your PrC).

All you have to do is go through the existing PrC's and replace every instance of bow with crossbow, and every mention of arrow with bolt.

I see your point. I have to add more powerful/unique abilities. Thank you.

IMC, I created the Marksmen of Clangadin, a dour order of Dwarven Arcane Archers. Prereq's were the same, except you had to be a Dwarf or Human, have the right patron deity, and cast divine spells... ah, and of course, use crossbows.

Arcane Archers that were required to be divine casters and worship a certain god? I hope magic was a possible domain.

Thanks.
 

How 'bout some alternate abilities if the class is underpowered as is.

Potential New Abilities:
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*Piercing Shot(Su): Bolts fired by the CT have the ability to punch through a certain amount of armor. At 3rd level, any attack made with a crossbow by the CT against a target ignores 1 point of Armor bonus to the target's AC. At 6th level, all shots ignore 2 points of Armor bonus, and at 9th level, they ignore 3 points of Armor bonus.

*Vital Bolt(Su): Once per day, the CT can choose to declare a single shot with a crossbow as a Vital-Seeking bolt before rolling for the attack. If the bolt hits, it automatically deals the CT's full sneak attack damage, even if it normally would not do so.

*True-Striking Shot(Su): Bolts fired by the CT have the ability to breach a target's Damage Reduction as if they had an enhancement bonus. At 2nd level, all bolts bypass Damage reduction as if they were +1 weapons(they do not get a bonus to attack/damage, just the ability to bypass damage reduction). At 4th level, and every even level thereafter(6th, 8th, 10th), the effective bonus increases by 1.

*Crippling Shot(Su): Once per day, when the CT scores a critical hit with a crossbow shot, he may declare it a crippling shot before rolling damage. Instead of dealing any damage, the attack deals temporary Str or Dex damage equal to the critical multiplier of the crossbow(a light crossbow with cm x2 would deal 2 temporary Str or Dex). At 10th level, half of this ability damage becomes permanent.

*Poison Use(Ex): At first level the CT no longer suffers a chance of poisoning himself when applying poison to a weapon.

New Abilities Chart:
--------------------------
1-Poison Use
2-True-Striking Shot(+1)
3-Piercing Shot(1)
4-True-Striking Shot(+2)
5-Crippling Shot 1/day
6-True-Striking Shot(+3), Piercing Shot(2)
7-Vital Bolt
8-True-Striking Shot(+4)
9-Piercing Shot(3)
10-Crippling Shot(1/2 Permanent Damage), True-Striking Shot(+5)
---------------------------

Note that I'm not saying that all of these should replace my original stuff. The table's there to provide a visual means of level vs. ability evaluation. If anything, I'd personally take like two or three abilities max from this new list and add them to the old one.

Any more comments? Please?
 

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