Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and D&D

[Kaelynna]

Very good analysis from everyone

The Green Destiny was a Butterfly Sword, IMO. It's a weapon from one of the monk-related splat books that a monk can use with their favorable number of blows. The book even mentions the flexibility of the blade.

In addition, the four main characters -- Li, the Jade Fox, Xiou Long (the girl), and Yu Shu Lien (Li's fiancee) -- were all very high level.

The Jade Fox is the lowest level and the easiest. She's a rogue/assassin. She uses poison, tries to get a sneak attack on Li when she has the chance, and is easily dispatched by some of the nastiest poison I've ever seen.

Yu Shu Lien is a high level monk/fighter. We see she has proficiency with a very large number of weapon types, is good at unarmed combat, and has a little bit of the jumping and balance skills that make the girl and Liu so amazingly acrobatic. She has just made epic levels (21st) and took the feat that allows Deflect Arrows to work more than once per round.

Xiou Long (the girl) is an epic level rogue/monk/thief-acrobat. She dances along rooftops, practically flies (legendary leaper), balances on bamboo trees, and can fight far better than all the warrior 1-3s on the combat circuit. She's not a highly epic character, but she is epic.

Li Mu Bai is an epic level monk. He has the exotic weapon proficiency needed to handle the Green Destiny. He has Expertise and Improved Disarm (he takes the Green Destiny away from Xiou with a stick and doesn't draw an AoO). He has the legendary leaping and balancing feats (they run across water -- something specifically mentioned in the ELH). What's more important... he has the feat that allows you to use Deflect Arrows more than once per round! When the Jade Fox makes her attack with her super-blowgun, he does roll a 1... and a dart kills him.

Good analysis! The only thing though is an 11th level monk becomes immune to poison, but I realize of course that D&D and movies (or novels for that matter) will never be 100% compatible. But it is fun to try to simulate certain movie/novel character types in D&D.

Thanks!
- K

 

[Dave Blewer]

They could be all Epic Level D&D characters...

or starting level Feng Shui characters

 

[Ghoti]

If you remember in the movie, the woman called Green Destiny a straightsword, if you remember she then commented that she doesn't like to use straightswords.

If you have a copy of Arms & Armor from Bastion Press, they have a Strightsword in it.

 

[Chun-tzu]

I have a full size but unofficial replica of the Green Destiny, that very closely resembles the one in the movie. It's definitely a long sword, not a rapier, bastard sword, or butterfly sword (butterfly swords are short with thick blades; here's an example ).

The blade is 31" long, and the hilt is 7", built for one handed but can be wielded two-handed.

 

[NoOneofConsequence]

Ahh...so it was a typical Chinese gentleman's sword (as opposed to the Dan Dao, a peasant's weapon).

I guess it looked like a larger version because of the camera angles used.

 

[Drakmar]

By European terms the Green Destiny would be a Longsword.. especially the way the Western fighting styles would use the sword. The most common use that we see the Chinese Straigthword in Australia is in Tai Chi sword forms.

Because of the lack of heavy armour the fighting style developed in such a way that it is similar to Western "fencing" (not the sport) hence why many people think that the sword is a rapier. It isn't. it is all about the style in which it is used. I would probably make my own stats for the weapon. It is not as good threat wise as a rapier. But.. because of its lightness it is able to be weapon finessed.. so.. it is a Longsword which allows weapon finessing. O.. and it has a tassle.. and if you have ever get trained in the use of a straightsword you would find out that tassle is an important part of the style.. you have to get the tassle to move in a particular manner as you do the sword forms.
Hung Gar has a straightsword fighting form.

Might I suggest to create Le Mui Bei, you should use the Quint. Monk. there is a prestige class in there that is perfect.. it has the jumping across water stuff happening.. and another prestige class that makes you a fantastic wielder of a specific weapon.

 

[hong]

Might I suggest to create Le Mui Bei, you should use the Quint. Monk. there is a prestige class in there that is perfect.. it has the jumping across water stuff happening.. and another prestige class that makes you a fantastic wielder of a specific weapon.

Eh. In the high-level campaign I'm in, _everybody_ bar one guy can do the jumping across water stuff. And the only martial artist character around is me.

I would put money on the bet that most high-level (>10th) groups will be much the same.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Okay, now I know that alignments are not as important as honor in Rokugan/OA. With that is mind, what are their honor ratings/alignments?


Here's what I think:

1) Li: I think he was LG with an honor of Strength of a Thousand Ancestors, Rank 5. My friend disagrees and gave him a LN alignment.


2) Jade Fox: Easy---CE. Honor: Honorless, Rank 0.


3) Xiou Long (the girl): I say: CN. Honor: Untrustworthy, Rank 1. My friend disagrees and says CE and Rank 0.


4) Yu Shu Lien (Li's fiancee): LG, Honor, A Soul Above Reproach, Rank 4. My friend disagrees and gave her the same as above except LN.


5) The Desert Raider dude: CN. Honor: Honorless, Rank 0. My friend disagrees and says the same as above except CE.

 

[teitan]

3) Xiou Long (the girl): I say: CN. Honor: Untrustworthy, Rank 1. My friend disagrees and says CE and Rank 0.

5) The Desert Raider dude: CN. Honor: Honorless, Rank 0. My friend disagrees and says the same as above except CE.

For Xiou I would actually say Lawful Neutral or true Neutral. She still has enough respect to worry about her family etc. and she feels guilt at stealing the Green Destiny Sword. She wants to be a free spirit though, so that takes away from her lawfulness. I would even go so far as Neutral with good tendencies. She is very young and confused on her station in life and desperately wants it to be like the other travelling warriors. She does nothing intrinsically evil to warrant your friends CE alignment, but she does nothing Chaotic either. She is a rebellious, arrogant child.

The desert dude, name escapes me as well, was certainly CHaotic, but not Neutral. I would say good. He ordered his fellow raider to spare the women and children and protected them during the raid. He took care of Xiou and seems to be a generally good person doing what he has to in order to survive in a harsh desert environment.

Jason

 

[P99]

Hi, I noticed a lot of questions regarding the sword in the movie.
Basically the type of sword used is a 'Gim' or 'Jian' (different words for same sword in different Chinese Dialects)

This is basically a relatively light (1.5-2.5 lbs) straight double edged sword with a blade about 28-30" long. It has also become known as a 'Tai Chi sword' in modern times but historically was used in a variety of Chinese martial styles including Tai Chi.
Despite it's lightness some modern experts on the sword with access to antiques state that it was quite capable of decapitating or chopping off limbs. (see www.swordforum.com under the forum on Chinese swords for Scott Rodell's many essays on this topic).

I own several modern replicas of this type of sword...Kris Cutlery and a Paul Chen practical Tai Chi sword. It is about 38" long and is meant to be used in one hand. The sword was designed for cutting with edges as well as thrusting. In DND terms it is a piercing/slashing weapon.

In terms of use the Gim was considered the most difficult Chinese weapon to master. It relied on speed and agility of technique to parry (not block) attacks and in DND terms would be a finessible weapon.

THe book Quintessential monk lists it as a rapier equivalent with P/S damage.

In my campaigns I allow upgrading damage to 1d8 with a purchase of exotic proficiency in the sword. This simulates Mr. Rodell's research into the capabilities into the actual sword's use in the past as well as the intensive training required to wield the weapon.

I wish I could comment on the use of it myself but my Tai Chi training is novice at best and sword training is at least 5 years away.

Hope this clears up some questions