Cruel Reaper (fighter) vs. Wandering Tornado (ranger)

[jasin]

Cruel Reaper is an encounter Fighter Attack 27, Wandering Tornado is an enocounter Ranger Attack 27.

Cruel Reaper deals 2[W] + Str within burst 1, lets you shift 2 squares and make a secondary attack within burst 1 that deals 2[W] + Str.

Wandering Tornado deals 1[W] + Str within burst 1, lets you shift 1 + Wis squares, and make another attack "as above".

Besides the annoyingly different notation (CR has complete Secondary Attack and Hit entries, WT just says "as above"), why in the world does a striker power deal less damage than an almost identical defender power?

 

[Mouseferatu]

Because the ranger A) can possibly shift further, and B) is likely adding his Hunter's Quarry damage.

 

[Darth Cyric]

Wandering Tornado strikes me as a short-range teleportation spell with some area damage attached (assuming your WIS is high). The potential to shift close to your speed for free is pretty awesome and, IMO, is worth giving up the one less [W] per hit. One of the enemies you're hitting is probably your Hunter's Quarry, anyway.

Also keep in mind that if you're fighting minions, the damage figures don't matter, and in this case, Wandering Tornado allows you to clear out a lot more of them because of your greater shift distance.

 

[keterys]

Both the fighter and ranger powers should be balanced against each other (ie, the ranger's shouldn't be inherently better cause he's a striker) - in this case, the fighter's likely included about 4 less squares shifted while the ranger's deals 4-7 less damage per target.

Seems close enough.

 

[Zurai]

Because the ranger A) can possibly shift further, and B) is likely adding his Hunter's Quarry damage.

Hunter's Quarry, like Sneak Attack, is 1/turn. It's quite likely that the fighter's 2W damage to up to 14 enemies is going to meet or exceed the 3d6 to a single enemy from HQ. I don't see how "possibly shift further" really balances out doing a little over half the base damage.

Unfortunately, WotC did a lousy job of balancing powers against each other. This is evident nearly everywhere you look in the PHB.

 

[jasin]

Both the fighter and ranger powers should be balanced against each other (ie, the ranger's shouldn't be inherently better cause he's a striker) -

It was my impression that he should be better at dealing damage. After all, the fighter is better at avoiding damage, suffering damage and keeping enemies tied down.

 

[Celebrim]

Unfortunately, WotC did a lousy job of balancing powers against each other. This is evident nearly everywhere you look in the PHB.

Don't think of it as poor balance. Think of it as greater freedom. Now you can design anything you want. If they put it in, you can take it out. If they left it out, you can put it in. What's not to like? Three cheers for exception based design!

 

[keterys]

It was my impression that he should be better at dealing damage. After all, the fighter is better at avoiding damage, suffering damage and keeping enemies tied down.

The ranger is better at dealing damage - he has hunter's quarry.

The powers themselves should be balanced, though. Pretend you didn't know where the powers came from and compare the following two powers:

A: Close burst 1 - 2d10 + 17 (avg 28), shift 2, close burst 1 - 2d10 + 17 (avg 28)

B: Close burst 1 - 1d10 + 17 (avg 22.5), shift 7, close burst 1 - 1d10 + 17 (avg 22.5)

Shifting that much is a big deal, especially for being able to hit more targets. The powers seem balanced against each other.

 

[Zurai]

Sure. Now compare these two powers:

A: Close burst 1 - 2d10 + 17, shift 2, close burst 1 - 2d10 + 17

B: Close burst 1 - 1d10 + 17, shift 1, close burst 1 - 1d10 + 17

That is also a possible result from the two powers. Wandering Tornado requires two high stats; Cruel Reaper requires one. Also, it's far more likely that the best possible total damage is going to be from shifting 0 squares. It's very unlikely that there are going to be two different clumps of enemies of equal size conveniently spaced that you could shift into them and hit them all with a close burst 1 attack. Most likely there'll be one clump and a few scattered, and it'll be best for you just to hit the first group with two close burst 1 attacks. That entirely negates the Ranger's shift advantage.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Strikers are supposed to be better at dealing damage /to individual enemies/. Controllers are supposed to be better at dealing out damage to multiple enemies. Both of these powers are controller-like powers that you'd likely use on minions (you're not likely to face 16 opponents unless some of them are minions - at 27th, Abysaly Ghoul Myrmidons, WTFTI). The fighter power lets you do more damage, the ranger power lets you move farther. Strikers are supposed to be more mobile, so it doesn't seem completely out of line. Also keep in mind that 2[w] isn't twice as much damage, it's just twice as much weapon-die damage, which, at 27th, is probably not a big portion of the damage being done.

The way the powers would be used is also likely different. A fighter would more likely use his power when his position's been overrun - to clear away some minions surrounding him, fall back, and mark some foes that have gotten past him. The ranger would more likely use it offensively - to clear some minions in his way, get in close to some artillery/controller/leader/whatever monster, tag it his quarry, and hit it and anything else in range.