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D&D 3E/3.5 Curious about Pathfinder vs. 3.5E

Viktyr Gehrig

First Post
I'm interested in the ruleset, so here's my question: What is your favorite rule change that Pathfinder provides over 3.5?

Really good changes:
  • Skill points are much simpler: skill points purchase skill ranks 1 for 1 regardless of class, no x4 skill points at 1st level, and trained class skills receive a +3 bonus.
  • CMB and CMD are simple to calculate and save you from having to memorize several slightly different rules.
  • Every class has class abilities that make sticking with the class for 20 levels worthwhile, while multiclassing penalties have been removed.
  • As of Advanced Player's Guide, character customization is based on Archetypes over Prestige Classes and different races get different Favored Class bonuses.

Bad changes:
  • Regeneration isn't any simpler and now it makes less sense.
  • Barbarians and Bards took inexplicable nerfs to their Rage and Bardic Music abilities.

... and that's all that I can think of for "bad changes". There are no "really bad changes".
 

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Water Bob

Adventurer
CMB is unequivocally the best thing that Pahfinder did; taking a broken and confusing array of things and unifying them into one simple, fair rule.

The CMB thing is interesting. I don't hate it. But, it's not attracting me, either. I like the idea, in 3.5, that a character with a better CHR and points in Bluff is better at feinting than a character who has a lower CHR and has not improved Bluff. No Feat involved, but Feats can still buff up some maneuvers. I don't think a character should be just as good at Feinting as he is at Disarming or Tripping his opponent.

So, unless I'm not seeing with the CMB thing, I don't find it all that impressive.

Thanks for the input, though. It is helping me form an opinion of Pathfinder.
 


IronWolf

blank
The CMB thing is interesting. I don't hate it. But, it's not attracting me, either. I like the idea, in 3.5, that a character with a better CHR and points in Bluff is better at feinting than a character who has a lower CHR and has not improved Bluff. No Feat involved, but Feats can still buff up some maneuvers. I don't think a character should be just as good at Feinting as he is at Disarming or Tripping his opponent.

Feinting is not a combat maneuver.

Combat - Feint
 

Viktyr Gehrig

First Post
Pathfinder SRD said:
A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Creatures with regeneration heal damage at a fixed rate, as with fast healing, but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning (although creatures with regeneration still fall unconscious when their hit points are below 0). Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, cause a creature’s regeneration to stop functioning on the round following the attack. During this round, the creature does not heal any damage and can die normally.

D&D SRD said:
Creatures with this extraordinary ability recover from wounds quickly and can even regrow or reattach severed body parts. Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage, and the creature automatically cures itself of nonlethal damage at a fixed rate per round, as given in the creature’s entry.

Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, deal damage to the creature normally; that sort of damage doesn’t convert to nonlethal damage and so doesn’t go away.

In Pathfinder, creatures with regeneration take normal damage from all attacks but regain hit points every round, just like fast healing. If they take the special kind of damage they're vulnerable to, however, their regeneration stops for one round and if their hit point total is low enough, they die. However, if they don't die... they regenerate from that damage normally, as if they hadn't been vulnerable to it at all.
 


Ahnehnois

First Post
The CMB thing is interesting. I don't hate it. But, it's not attracting me, either. I like the idea, in 3.5, that a character with a better CHR and points in Bluff is better at feinting than a character who has a lower CHR and has not improved Bluff. No Feat involved, but Feats can still buff up some maneuvers. I don't think a character should be just as good at Feinting as he is at Disarming or Tripping his opponent.
Just to clarify, feint is separated off and is still Bluff-based. And you don't need feats to do these things.

The problem in 3.5 was that some things (like trip and bull rush) were ability checks, while others (like grapple and disarm) were modified attack rolls. It was tough remembering which was which, and it created some really bizarre balance issues (tripping a high level wizard was trivially easy even for weak summoned creature, for example). That's what's been fixed. They also cleaned up grappling in the process.
 

Water Bob

Adventurer
They also cleaned up grappling in the process.

I never understood what was wrong with Grapple in the first place. It seems fine, to me (though I've yet to have a grapple in my game--hope to, soon, though).

I like the Trip clarifcation in the Pathfinder FAQ linked above. I'm going to use that in my Conan game. (The part about tripping with a weapon with a "trip" feature.)

And, while we're talking about Feint, Combat Maneuver or not (splitting hairs on that), I have always felt that, although I like CHR becoming a stat usable in melee combat, that there should be a non-Charismatic guy who is very good at Feinting.....or at Intimidating, for that matter. I think both Pathfinder and 3.5 should be slightly modified there.
 

Chronologist

First Post
You can be very good at feinting and not be very charismatic, the same with intimidate. Charisma just helps, especially at low levels when you aren't that skilled yet, and natural talent shines through more than experience.

Characters with low charisma just aren't as socially adept as those with high charisma, and being able to read your opponent in battle is an aspect of that (like how Iajustu Focus was Charisma-based, I believe. I might be wrong). You need to read people to intimidate them properly as well, true threats require finesse. Unless you have the feat that lets you substitute your Strength bonus for your Charisma bonus, at which point you've learned how to gets the same results by merely cracking your knuckles and looming ominously.

Back on topic, you'll find that Pathfinder didn't fix the disparity between mages and fighters, but it closed the gap quite a bit, mostly by giving goodies to all the warrior-types and nerfing most of the broken spells (like Polymorph), and taking away the more broken class features (Wild Shape is much, much weaker now but still good enough to want to play a Druid). Many still think that Rogues are underpowered, but honestly you could make the ability to find and disarm magical traps a feat that also grants a bonus to those checks and you could cut the class out altogether. Heck, give bards the ability to disarm magical traps and they suddenly become a much better class.

Bards are actually good now, especially with Ultimate Magic, which gives them some awesome options. I'm partial to the ones that reduce your spells known in exchange for cool effects with your bardic music, then combining that with extra rounds per day for a pretty nice suite of options.

Pathfinder also does something that 3.5 did not do well: introducing new base classes in supplements that aren't terrible or otherwise identical, yet crappier than an existing class. They're all quite unique, with the possible exception of the Samurai and Ninja which are the Cavalier and Rogue with eastern flavor and a couple different class features.

As has been mentioned above, classes are now worth taking all the way to level 20, especially since the mage classes tend to have "paths" that give them good abilities at higher levels, while the warrior and thief classes tend to have "talents" that can be selected at every other level, which start out about as strong as a feat but which get stronger as you get to higher levels in that class.

Most prestige classes got another goodie or two as well, while others stayed about the same. The Mystic Theurge got a few new tricks up their collective sleeves, while the Assassin lost its casting (which was always kind of strange anyway) in lieu of some extraordinary class features.

All base classes and prestige classes have a "capstone" ability at 20th and 10th level, respectively, making dipping less attractive.

That's about all the big changes. Most everything else is either pretty minor or fairly specific.

In general, I find Pathfinder to be more fun. It feels like more though and testing went into the rules before they were released. If only WotC had done more of that, maybe Truenamers would have been playable. Ah, well.
 

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