Curmudgeon's Corner: So, what's the deal with Critical Role?

[Celebrim]

But how do you and @Celebrim manage to watch people play video games?

I'm not entirely sure to be honest. From a purely logical perspective, watching people play video games is a fairly boring activity. However, I've on several occasions enjoyed it.

I think for me it's akin to watching sports, something I admit I don't do a lot of despite the admiration I have for athletic accomplishment. I'm just not that into sports, except for the ones I actually played a bit - soccer, ultimate, table tennis, etc. Occasionally I'll watch some sport I'm unacquainted with for the novelty - I watched a lot of Sumo last year.

When you watch sports rather than play them, the appeal is usually watching someone play the sport at a higher level than you can. You are watching the sport in order to admire the art and skill of the person(s) playing the sport. The more you know about the sport, the more you can admire the subtly and skill of what someone who is making it all look easy is actually doing.

I think video games are similar. So for example, I played "They Are Billions" when it first came out and I was pretty good at it. I managed to beat map 4 in Survival Mode at the normal level of difficulty back when 90% of the player population was struggling to beat map 1 at any difficulty. I could beat every map but map 4 at max difficulty, but I was hugely struggling to beat map 4 at any higher difficulty level. I had a couple of top 50 world runs on the challenge maps, which wasn't bad considering that the top 10 scores or so were cheats that had modified the game (the scores they were reporting weren't merely good, but impossible with unmodified data).

There was this streamer who was playing map 4 at max difficulty without pause, which is just insane levels of skill, going for a world first win on the map. And it was a lot of fun to watch him play, simply because you had to admire what he was doing. I never did beat map 4 at max difficulty, and I tired of the game before I got that good, but I don't regret the hours of time I spent watching one of the world's best RTS players do the elegant ballet of mouse clicks and strategic planning that he was doing.

And, I guess in that I've also answered why I probably don't enjoy watching table top RPGs streamed.

 

[Leatherhead]

Also, I understand that people can make similar arguments about, say, sports or music (why watch football when you can do it? why go to concerts that you can play?) .... to which I have two answers: A. Shut Up. B. It's difference.

Not really. Fans are still experiencing joy by living vicariously though the parasocial relationships to the players (or artists), and building an identity and community around them and the brand. Though nothing really compares to a Football fanatic spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars for a single ticket so they can watch their team play, even in the rain or snow. The thing's I've seen people do for "their team" are just mind-blowing.

I also find that they’re really, really helpful to see how a game works. Just RPGs overall, yes, but also a specific game.

Watching someone else do something is one of the best ways for some people to learn about it. And anyone who is interested in game design (which I imagine would be a lot of people on this forum) should also be interested in how people actually play them.

Also speedruns are just amazing to watch.

 

[darjr]

You don’t like heavy metal?!

I just started listening, I have a loooong way to go.

 

[iserith]

I don't much care for Critical Role, nor many actual play podcasts, but I do listen to at least a couple per week. Often I just search for D&D on Twitch and pick one that is Live and has a few viewers (and is in English). Then I listen in for 30 minutes or so.

Despite how much I care about how I DM and how obsessed I may appear with that concern in forum posts, as a player and listener, I'm actually very easy to please. All the game needs to do is be (1) funny or (2) productive. And if both are true, that is a big win. Unfortunately most games I listen to do not meet this mark and so I don't count myself as an ardent fan of any of them.

While listening, I do very much enjoy analyzing how the DM is presenting the game and how the players are responding to what the DM is presenting. This provides tremendous insight into the game experience in my view, almost as much as when I run one-shots of the same adventure for multiple pick-up groups. What works, what doesn't work, and more importantly why. That helps inform my DMing and discussions regarding the same.

Sometimes a few of us in my DM Discord will tune in and discuss problematic issues that are occurring in the game, as was the case with one on Sunday night in which the DM presented a very opaque sort of puzzle to one player while the other four players twiddled their thumbs for an hour. It was a perfect storm of DM mistakes (again, in my opinion). Those discussions are helpful and, because I surround myself with funny people, highly amusing.

 

[Charlaquin]

But how do you and @Celebrim manage to watch people play video games? At most, I can watch a very short clip if it's a gameplay hint (how to get past X boss), and then only if there isn't a written guide.

There are a few different “genres,” so to speak, of watching other people play video games.

First, there’s the simple play-through. These are often (though not always) of single-player games usually with little to no commentary by the person playing. Some play-throughs will read in-game text and dialogue out loud, but it’s the exception to the rule. These are usually enjoyed by people who want to experience a game’s story, but can’t or won’t play it for whatever reason - often because they can’t afford it, or don’t have a machine capable of running it, or sometimes due to disability (especially for games that involve motion controls), or are just plain bad at video games.

Next, there’s the Streamed game. These are more often than not competitive multiplayer games. They usually include face cam footage of and commentary by the streamer. People watch these for much the same reason they might watch sports - to admire the technical skill of someone who has devoted a great deal of time and energy to learning to play the game. Sometimes it’s just for the enjoyment of watching a pro at work, other times it’s to observe their technique to try to learn to improve one’s own play.

Finally, there’s the Let’s Play. These can be just about any kind of game, and usually include face cam, though there are some notable Let’s Players who don’t employ them, but always include commentary, usually comedic. In this “genre” the video game being played is incidental. What people actually watch Let’s Plays for is the player’s (or sometimes players’, plural) reactions to the game. Rage games are a very popular “sub-genre” as a result. In this case, viewers aren’t really tuning in to watch someone else play video games. They’re tuning in to watch what is essentially an improvised comedy performance, the gimmick of which is that it’s done over a backdrop of a video game.

In the latter two cases, a big factor in viewership is the para-social relationship the audience has with the performer. People become attached their favorite streamers or Let’s Players, and it becomes more about watching them than about the games they’re playing. This is especially true of Let’s Plays though, because the game is already secondary to the core appeal of a Let’s Play.

 

[pogre]

I am with you - as an aged cloud-yeller. I am very thankful for the success of CR. It certainly is a major factor in the boom in D&D popularity. However, I don't get it.

I have kids at school that watch CR religiously, but I cannot get them to try the game. Those students are the exception though, the vast majority of new players in our High School D&D game came to us through CR.

I hope they continue with their amazing success. But, I continue to miss the boat on watching.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The title pretty much says it all.

But to elaborate-

I love all the attention that TTRPGs get. Even if they aren't TTRPGs, they are just RPGs. Yeah, you heard me, CRPGs. You can just go straight to H-E-double hockey sticks, so long as you take your C with you!

So I appreciate podcasts, and shows, like Critical Role for developing more of an audience.

...but I just don't get it.

I've tried to engage with it (Critical Role, that Dan Harmon one), but it's just not for me. If I wanted to watch a show, there's approximately 5 billion shows and movies to watch; I'm literally DROWNING in content.

And, more importantly, why would I want to watch others play a game that I can play myself?

I have the same, strong, revulsion to most Twitch streams; why would I watch someone else play a videogame that I can play myself? That's, you know, weird.

Look, I get that this is the classic, Old Guy Yelling at Clouds argument ("What's with the kids these days, riding around in their funny cars and blasting their hip hop music and shooting the jerbs????"), but I don't get the appeal.

Also, I understand that people can make similar arguments about, say, sports or music (why watch football when you can do it? why go to concerts that you can play?) .... to which I have two answers: A. Shut Up. B. It's difference.

...ahem. Seriously, though, is this something I'm missing? Can someone explain the appeal to me, or how I might get to understand this?

Or am I doomed to forever not be able to waste hours of time watching other people play, and be forced to play myself instead?*




*Yeah, I did that. What are you going to do about it?

It's a good show?

 

[Parmandur]

The title pretty much says it all.

But to elaborate-

I love all the attention that TTRPGs get. Even if they aren't TTRPGs, they are just RPGs. Yeah, you heard me, CRPGs. You can just go straight to H-E-double hockey sticks, so long as you take your C with you!

So I appreciate podcasts, and shows, like Critical Role for developing more of an audience.

...but I just don't get it.

I've tried to engage with it (Critical Role, that Dan Harmon one), but it's just not for me. If I wanted to watch a show, there's approximately 5 billion shows and movies to watch; I'm literally DROWNING in content.

And, more importantly, why would I want to watch others play a game that I can play myself?

I have the same, strong, revulsion to most Twitch streams; why would I watch someone else play a videogame that I can play myself? That's, you know, weird.

Look, I get that this is the classic, Old Guy Yelling at Clouds argument ("What's with the kids these days, riding around in their funny cars and blasting their hip hop music and shooting the jerbs????"), but I don't get the appeal.

Also, I understand that people can make similar arguments about, say, sports or music (why watch football when you can do it? why go to concerts that you can play?) .... to which I have two answers: A. Shut Up. B. It's difference.

...ahem. Seriously, though, is this something I'm missing? Can someone explain the appeal to me, or how I might get to understand this?

Or am I doomed to forever not be able to waste hours of time watching other people play, and be forced to play myself instead?*




*Yeah, I did that. What are you going to do about it?

What it comes down to is that the group is made up of people who have played together for years and love each other, and who as trained actors bring serious improv skill to the process. That love comes across, and leads to moments of real emotion. It's not for everyone, but it is best in class.

 

[Tun Kai Poh]

Actual Plays don't work for everyone - and Critical Role is, honestly, not the easiest to get into, plus their streams are so DAMN LONG.

I'm able to follow along and enjoy. But. I like podcast Actual Plays for one major reason.

For the past few years, I've worked a day job 8-5, plus commute, and I help to care for a disabled person most of the rest of the time. My gaming group has broken up and drifted apart and while I try to keep connected to my gaming community, it's not easy to schedule regular sessions anymore. If I manage to snag a gaming date it's usually somewhere very near where we live so that I can drive home in case of emergencies.

It's been really tough.

Listening to other people playing, during my commute to work and back, is what gives me life. Without that reminder of how awesome RPGs are I don't think I could survive.

I have sometimes wept listening to these games, reminding me how great roleplaying was.

I recommend Asians Represent (their D&D series starts here): Dungeons & Da Asians #1: The Stone of Heaven

The Magpies (Blades in the Dark), about daring women doing heists: The Magpies Podcast – A Blades in the Dark Actual Play Podcast

Party of One (various systems) where the table is always set for two (and the sessions are shorter and paced just right for my commute): Home - Party Of One

You Don't Meet in an Inn (various systems) with some amazing table chemistry among the players: You Don't Meet In An Inn

 

[jasper]

.... Old Guy Yelling at Clouds argument.....YOU ain't that cool daddyo. You more Old Phart Playing Pong.