Curse that charisma!

[Frostmarrow]

Another point: Intimidate is the art of getting people to do what you want, by fear. If you are successful the intimidee becomes friendly towards the intimidator for a short spell. After the effect wears off the intimidee become unfriendly indstead, or pished if you will. "Friendly" means that the NPC is willing to provide minor help. Frex:

The guard says: "None shall pass through this door while I stand here."
Halfling says: "You'd better reconsider that stance. For I am a bit irate today..."
Guard: "When you put it that way, sure you can sneak passed but if I catch you aound here again."

Seconds later.

Guard to himself: Ah man. He caught me offguard. I'd better report this.

A brute can scare someone but he can't make someone "friendly".

 

[Darklone]

Well, everyone can be intimidating. Just pick up a sword, thrust it full length into the guy next to him, retrieve the bloody blade and point it on him, and he sure as hell will be intimidated.

If the opponent grins and lifts his sword, running might be a good idea.

 

[danzig138]

As others have pointed out, one of the supplements has a rule allowing for the use of Strength in in place of Charisma for Intimidation. So the rules for it is there. I don't allow it myself though.
I would look into getting the drawf and halfling to work together to Intimidate someone. As much as I dislike using life experiences to demonstrate a point, I will.
It seems that I'm a fairly intimidating person, by simply being around. Something to do with my build, expression, and silence when I'm around people I don't know. More than one person has been frightened of me on meeting, but once I start to talk, it fades. I'm a nice guy, and I can't talk "scary"; it just doesn't work. I had a friend who wasn't physically intimidating in any way, but was good with words. There were a couple of times that he was able to intimidate others, based in part on my presence to back up the words he spoke.
Point? Let the halfling do the verbal part of the Intimidation while the dwarf stands around menacingly. The halfling gets a bonus to his check, maybe even base the actual bonus on the dwarf's roll, and the dwarf gets to use his scary appearance to affect the outcome. To modifiy someone else's example:

The guard says: "None shall pass through this door while I stand here."
Halfling says: "You'd better reconsider that stance. For my friend is a bit irate today..."
Guard: [looks at the spiked, angry dwarf] "When you put it that way, sure you can sneak passed but if I catch you aound here again."

I also think this represents better the SW scene with Han, Chewie and the droids.

 

[Will]

Man. This is inspiring me to make a grizzled old fighter (-3 physical stats, +2 mental), and go for lots and lots of Charisma/intimidate.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

This is another important note here - in that the Dwarf in question is intimidating, because he's got lots of ranks in Intimidate! He may not be as intimidating as other people with higher charisma and the same number of ranks, but he still knows how to scare people a lot better than someone with no ranks at all.

I've got a rogue with a Cha 6 in another game. It's going to take him a very long time to be able to Bluff anyone convincingly, but eventually at higher levels if he's fighting someone not so good he should manage it due to his skill, rather than having to hope his natural inclinations let him down.

 

[DarkMaster]

I just think that force of personality (Charisma) is what makes a person strong-willed (Will save), not insight, intuition, perception (Wisdom).

However, there's no question, that Fortitude should be derived from Constitution, not Strength.

Bye
Thanee

I don't agree Charisma is what you project outside, your ability to influence, manipulate, Wisdom on the other hand is more internal, self confidence, will power, in the mind influence combat I see Charisma as your attack and wisdom as your defense. Wisdom also include insight, intuition, perception of course

 

[Pielorinho]

This is another important note here - in that the Dwarf in question is intimidating, because he's got lots of ranks in Intimidate! He may not be as intimidating as other people with higher charisma and the same number of ranks, but he still knows how to scare people a lot better than someone with no ranks at all.

This is an excellent point. The 20 Cha halfling is almost superhumanly charismatic, and has studied how best to manipulate other people through playing on their fears. The dwarf might cause a little more fear and might have studied fear, but he doesn't have the same force of personality; his manipulation attempts are more halting, clumsier. He's a back-alley knifeman, whereas the halfling is a neurosurgeon.

My favorite intimidate scene is "To the pain!" from The Princess Bride.Sure, there was a hefty dose of Bluff in that scene too, but it shows someone teasing out an enemy's fears and describing to them in horrifying detail what the consequences will be of not cooperating. Fezzik couldn't have done it.

Daniel

 

[Scion]

The argument that the character concept is 'big, tough, scary, ugly guy' is a moot point.

Luckily that isnt my point If the guy can easily show off his strength and then walk angrily at the guy then that person is probably going to cower, wet themselves, and tell everything that the guy wants to hear. If the guy had a good intimidate and used it 'appropriately'. Depending on the circumstances this could be in several ways. Hence the feat I proposed. A guy with that feat is just not good at dealing with people, but he knows it, he also knows just how to get what he wants out of such people by showing off.

There are lots of ways it might or might not work, but then the same could be said for any other stat including charisma (that guy is just too likeable to be intimidated by I've known people like that). Whatever the player wants his character to be good at should have a chance of it, which is where the feat comes in so that he can be good at it in a different way.

Come to think of it, people are pretty intimidated by martial artists in my experience. Watching someone do all of those moves and break things that they wouldnt have a chance of breaking. Reminds me of a few movies like that as well, like that one huge guy that never talked, always had a grimace, and no one could beat him down. Everyone feared him. In a lot of ways that guy was the epitome of uncharismatic but he intimidated everyone by just 'standing' there. He must've had my feat

 

[Henry]

The funny thing, as I always tell my wife, is that you shouldn't be afraid of the big, strong-looking, ugly guys - it's always those skinny, wiry, dead-eyed mother you need to fear. When you see someone who has "soulless" eyes, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Big strong guys usually mean what they say - and can often be talked down out of violence. (Did that a few times as a high-school kid.) Guys who look like (as an example) the rapper Snoop Dogg to me look like guys who you don't KNOW what they're going to do. The meanest fight as a kid I ever saw was two high school students and two teachers whom it took to subdue a small 120-pound student who was VIOLENTLY angry. (To this day, I don't know if it was drugs, or just sheer anger, but MY GOD that was nasty.)

To put in in D&D terms, force of personality often flies in the face of burly looks. A guy can look burly (18 STR and 16 CON) but have a voice like Mike Tyson and the personality of the meek little woman from Police Academy. Similarly, a Halfling could be a stick (STR 5, CON 6) but have the forceful impression and dead-eyes of Hannibal Lecter, (CHA 20), and know exactly what to say to get someone to do his will.

I've never run into someone who had both a big build AND the "dead-eyes" - but I pray I never do.

 

[Darklone]

Come to think of it, people are pretty intimidated by martial artists in my experience. Watching someone do all of those moves and break things that they wouldnt have a chance of breaking. Reminds me of a few movies like that as well, like that one huge guy that never talked, always had a grimace, and no one could beat him down. Everyone feared him. In a lot of ways that guy was the epitome of uncharismatic but he intimidated everyone by just 'standing' there. He must've had my feat

I don't think so. He might have had a very high charisma... that does not have to mean he's likable. Liches aren't either.