Cutting Back the Power Level

[FrostedMini1337]

Yes, because not every player is interested in being "challenged" to overcome a bad set of stats.

Amen. I'm ok with a total stats mod of +5, but not if I have to put 2 8's somewhere.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

Let's not confuse differing choices in game play and character creation as some sort of "I'm right & you're wrong".

There's a fine line between having an opinion and elitism.

 

[Wik]

Geez, am I the only one who still uses the 4d6 drop lowest method, or what!?

Reading these (you have a guy who is going to QUIT PLAYING over stat gen?) makes me realize that I'm a lucky guy, D&Dwise. If I said to my players tomorrow "okay, we're gonna try rolling 3d6 in order, see what happens", they would, with a minimum of grumbling. IN fact, I know my group well enough that I think they'd probably enjoy the challenge (we have done 3d6 in order, by the way, with a single re-roll allowed and one "switch"... it's probably the funnest stat generation system out there).

That said, I've heard so many things about Shackled City being tough that you might just want to give them some of their powergamery traditions. 32 point buy? Fine. Bonus skill points on a few classes? Well, if you want to, feel free.... I can't see how a fighter with a few more ranks in climb and jump is going to hurt things too much.

My dad is something of a power-gamer. If he has a single stat lower than 14, he thinks his player is "unplayable". I've literally seen him roll 4d6 about thirty times in a row, keeping the best six scores, and then remarking (with a straight face!) "I've rolled a pretty good character here". I guess some people are just like that.

 

[Dagger of Lath]

Let me return this in kind: Because I find your ideas just as sad, limited and not in the least interesting, heroic or fun. Oh boy, yet another "lets starve the players for stats, items and everything else to make it fun" campaign. But hey, if your players are happy with it, thats what counts. That just isn't my idea of fun and apparently you got a voice or two of dissention about it as well.

Well I deserved the return of my insensitive comment, though it was an honest opinion. Some of your comment (i.e. "voices of dissention") suggests you've mistaken me for someone else, perhaps the OP... I'm not sure. Anyway, I say sad, because I think people should enjoy any character, if you don't enjoy some of your characters I think that's a sad event.

Yes, because not every player is interested in being "challenged" to overcome a bad set of stats. Not every player is interested in being behind the curve of other people in the party.

Well, naturally you don't want to be behind the curve of the party. This is why I favour point buy over random generation. Who wants to be stuck with a lousy dice roll for the next year.

In D&D there aren't relative terms in stats though. You're a human? Then 10 is average, 3 is racial minimum and 18 is racial maximum with heroes potentially reaching 23 by epic levels. These norms define what an attribute means. By measuring your characters in the different fields by this scale you can see where your characters strengths and weaknesses lie.

When your attributes are built from the normal point total, this means your decisions have meaning. If everyone's intelligence is above 13, then the combat expertise feat (and the entire tree built off it) isn't special any more. It's supposed to be available only to certain special characters in the group, much like deflect arrows (dex 13) or power attack (str 13). With stats closer to average each character has their area of speciality.

A character with no weaknesses doesn't need the other PCs so they feel like they could adventure on their own. The game turns to turmoil and strife, one PC against the other. (exaggerated to communicate a point). If each character has weaknesses, and just as importantly strengths, then they can easily work together. People know what their character is good at and they trust the other character's to do their role in the party. To put it simply the fighter defends everyone else, the cleric heals them all, the mage does useful spells and the rogue disables traps and picks locks. No confusion or turmoil amongst the party. The group sticks together, argues less, everyone has more fun. (In my experience and with my group of players)

Isn't the point to have fun?

Absolutely.

Forcing someone to play something they don't like or want to.

My players are good enough friends and confident enough gamers to tell me when they dislike something, and if they still dislike the idea after I explain my reasons then I change the game for them. For example I banned sorcerers and monks from my last game since they didn't suit the western medieval setting, players complained so I put them back in.

I'm not clear on your point here. I think the extra material and books are good things as long as they are properly monitored for power creep.

Me too. I think as long as you take the books in the spirit they're written in, rather than the cold hard rules then power creep won't happen.

I think, except for relatively new players and DM's, just limiting things to the PHB can make it less interesting for people who've been playing a bazillion years.

I think you could happily run a game off the PHB alone. But it may not be as much fun as a game with more resources.

Indeed you are...of course, what about the one or two players who complained and weren't gonna play because of the changes you were enforcing. I guess not everyone is enthused about this campaign.

Do you think I'm someone else? Because the scenario you described doesn't conform to events on my end. I must admit I'm a little confused.

 

[Dagger of Lath]

Geez, am I the only one who still uses the 4d6 drop lowest method, or what!?

Out of our regular players who make it every session, I have one player who refuses to reroll if I say best out of three, so his characters are always behind everyone else. Used to have another player who cheated (not with our group any more). One with really good luck and one with really bad luck. (despite me not believing in good and back luck, these two -always- rolled well and poorly respectively). Since the group was always out of synch with eachother we just went "sod it" and use point buy. Makes it fairer on everyone.

 

[Thanatos]

Dagger - I did get you confused for the OP. For that, I apologize. I'm dealing with a sick little kitten today and more distracted then I should be...hence, I have removed my posts and regret even participating in this discussion at all.

If it hadn't been for some other the other things said, I wouldn't have, but que sera sera. In any event, I have erased my posts and am done in this thread.

 

[Dagger of Lath]

I'm dealing with a sick little kitten today

My best wishes on their recovery. I hope they're doing okay.

If it hadn't been for some other the other things said, I wouldn't have, but que sera sera. In any event, I have erased my posts and am done in this thread.

I said some silly things as well. (I'm quitting smoking, it has me tetchy).

 

[Thanatos]

My best wishes on their recovery. I hope they're doing okay.


I said some silly things as well. (I'm quitting smoking, it has me tetchy).

Thank you, she is under the care of our vet, who takes care of our other 2 cats (and does so very well). This kitten is a rescue from a home where she didn't get taken care of properly...so we have a bit of work to do.

You really do have my sympathy there...I know exactly how toug that is. I wish you the best with beating that habit.

Here is a picture of her(don't mind the date):

Jynx (the kitten)
http://www.hollowfaust.com/Personal/cats/Jynx.JPG

And to be on topic: As long as the players are all happy with the DM's restrictions and changes to their gaming style, thats all thats ultimately important. If people are unhappy, then all you can all do is hammer out compromises at the gaming table. Sans hammers...

 

[ChimericDream]

What level game is this? If you intend to start at first level and run to 20th level, you might consider starting them off very low stats (e.g. 28 point buy, but scores start at 6, not 8) but then fiddle with the way level based ability modifiers work. Have the normal +1 to one stat at level 2, 6, 10, 14 and 18, and have +1 to *each* stat at levels 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20.

They would basically start out as ordinary citizens of your game world, but their stats would be truly heroic at high levels.

You know, I really like this idea. I'm planning on running the WLD starting next month, and I've been looking for a way to even the power out a bit. I'm still tossing around the idea of a point buy, but this is a close second.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Here is a picture of her

Aagh! No! That is just criminally cute.

Hope Jynx is recovering well.