Cypher System Armor

[Connorsrpg]

(There does not seem to be a 'prefix' of area for the Cypher System.)

Anyway, if anyone is playing the Cypher System, perhaps you could enlighten me on how you use the Armor reducing Speed Effort idea.

At first, I thought it was pretty straight forward. Armor grants protection from damage: Light 1; Medium 2; Heavy 3. Easy

Those same modifiers are in a table on page 184 as Speed Effort Additional Cost. They add to 'every' level of Speed Effort. This much I understand. (Still with me)?

However, hidden in the text above is this line: "If you are not experienced with a certain type of armor but wear it anyway, this cost is further increased by 1. Having experience with a type of armor is called being practiced with the armor."

THEN, you go to a Type (like COmbat Flavor on page 59), and the Practiced In Amor Ability reads: "You can wear any kind of armor. You reduce the speed cost for wearing armor by 1."

WHAT?

These two lines just do not gel. One does not need to exist. Does just one cancel the other? If Practiced lowers them but not being practiced raises them, then why have the table? Just put the ACTUAL values and then lower them for Practiced.

This seemed straight forward at first, until we discussed it and I tired to explain to the players.

So you wear light armor and are not practised; you increase Speed Effort levels by 2.

You wear light armor and are practised and you suffer no penalty. Is that right? As there is NO middle ground, why doesn't the table just have actual rating and modify for ONE of these.

OR

You are practiced in light armor and wear it, you just cancel out the extra penalty? Still adding 1 to those Speed Effort rolls.

People seeing this? How did you read the what looked like a straight forward Armor Table (before reading the accompanying text).

 

[Evenglare]

This is actually a really good question. Tagging for later...

 

[Evenglare]

Okay so upon reading it more, it looks as though your second assumption is correct. Being practiced in armor negates that penalty for being in experienced. In essence the table provided is the table for being practiced in armor. I would complete agree though that the table should have given the base unpracticed penalty though. Again, the last line reads as though the table is for being practiced...

 

[Dahak]

I'd go with the second interpretation, too. That said, the way Armor works is probably the only significant rule change from Numenera or The Strange to generic Cypher System. I suspect the type/flavor abilities were written with the older method in mind (and basically cut and pasted), but I'd keep the reduction bonuses for practised anyway to maintain compatibility with listings in the earlier books.

 

[Connorsrpg]

Thanks guys. So in Numenera, the penalties are: light 2; medium 3; heavy 4?

Are their bonuses the same or have they been reduced?

So, to be clear, most people recommend being practiced simply eliminates the penalty for not being practiced? (Did I just write that? This just reads/seems so unecessary/wrong).

So a warrior practiced in all armors still suffers the penalties listed in the book of 1/2/3?

 

[Evenglare]

That's right. A warrior unpracticed would be 2/3/4. Later you can get abilities like armor mastery that reduce those penalties even more.

 

[Desh-Rae-Halra]

I am looking at p.79
Armor simply costs Might per hour and reduces the Speed Pool while wearing it. I think you are confusing something as you mention "Speed Effort". Armor does not effect the amount of Effort or its costs
A First Tier Glaives Practiced with Armor ability reduces the Might cost per hour and the Speed Pool cost by 2. At third Tier there is a move caled Experienced with Armor that adds another 1 to those "discounts".
Hence a First Tier Glaive wearing Heavy Armor would still have to pay 1 Might per hour worn and reduce their Speed Pool by 1.

Hope that helps

Desh

 

[Connorsrpg]

[MENTION=81852]Desh-Rae-Halra[/MENTION]. Sorry, that doesn't help. I assume you are referencing the Numenera book since you mention Glaives. My quotes are from the Cypher System core book. In there, armor 'penalties' clearly add to every level of Speed Effort.

So in Numenera, armor drains your Might pool as opposed to costing extra Speed Effort? I can see why they changed that. Whilst I like the idea of wearing armor tiring, it might be odd having to had characters remove it frequently.

It is just very confusing as to what those penalties are. I think I will go with my initial thoughts and what [MENTION=63245]Evenglare[/MENTION] has stated. Add one to values (1,2,3) BEFORE applying the 'practiced with armor' ability. So when practiced it remains (1,2,3); not practiced is (2,3,4).

 

[Guidance]

Since I don't see a conclusive reply to this I'll help clear it up. Even though it is an old resurrect.
Type Armor Speed Action Penalty per effort
Light +1 1
Medium +2 2
Heavy +3 3

There is the free base ability that comes with each character type that is the equivalent to a proficiency. Sadly they named it the same as the Tier abilities that give you a bonus with one exception, it specifies the armor type.

So Practiced with XXXX armor gives no bonus it just means you can use it with the normal penalties from the table above.

If you are not Practiced with XXXX armor it causes an extra point of speed penalty per effort.

The ability you get from Tier options called "Practiced with Armor" essentially reduces those penalties by one for any armor type and automatically makes you proficient in all armor types.

ie. If you ar a warrior that starts with Practiced with all armors and you wear a medium armor: Your speed penalty is 2. An adept with the same armor has a 3 armor penalty (2 from the armor and 1 from the lack of practices in medium armor).

ie2. If that same warrior and adept gain the Practiced in Armor ability (from whatever source) then the warrior's penalty in medium armor is 1 and so is the Adept (because the ability also gives the adept Practiced with All armor, that only overlaps for the Warrior)

 

[Connorsrpg]

Yep, that is what we are going with, though that is not what is spelled out in the Core Book. As it reads you never use the 'standard' mods?