D&D General D&D 2024 does not deserve to succeed

[Cordwainer Fish]

And then the constant and repeated, “infinite combinations” and “infinite customizations” made me quickly realize that they didn’t know what the word “infinite” actually meant.

Just once I'd like to play a game that assumes familiarity with Cantor's diagonalization method and gives the Axiom of Choice as an optional rule.

 

[Doc_Klueless]

Yeah, I’m sort of a stick in the mud in that I tend to take the Quick Build, minimally change it and then just play. To ME, the character is all in how it’s played. Not the mechanics behind it. But I readily admit that I’m odd that way.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Yeah, I’m sort of a stick in the mud in that I tend to take the Quick Build, minimally change it and then just play. To ME, the character is all in how it’s played. Not the mechanics behind it. But I readily admit that I’m odd that way.

There's a game out there for every playstyle.

I prefer lighter games as well, and have really enjoyed Shadowdark as a palate-cleanser alternated with 5E. I'm not the target audience for something like DC20, which adds more rules, rather than stripping them away.

 

[Clint_L]

It does not benefit the gaming community to continue putting money and attention into a now-lackluster, poorly managed, corporate-owned system. The more it has dominance atop the market, being able to advertise itself and propagate itself on gamestore shelves as * the * tabletop roleplaying game, the more the players suffer and the genre itself stagnates. Supporting D&D at this point feels almost as bad to me as supporting World of Warcraft - a game that ruined what MMORPG's are supposed to be and has been holding the genre back for decades. With any luck we may be nearing the point of that changing, and a reckoning needs to come for D&D as well. Choose to take your money and attention away from these shambling behemoths. Put it into better games.

So what is another option? From what I have seen, the DC20 system blows D&D away and is the best thing to be supporting right now. Far superior magic system, better character/class identity and customization, better and faster combat, better group play. All while being arguably more understandable for a new player, including a new DM. On top of all that, DC20 has the ability to constantly improve itself, much more than D&D does. There is less red tape at the management level, a more direct link for people to give input and see results. There is a passionate manager who wants to keep improving the game, not to make money and push out superficial products, but to have the best game possible. The only real issue is that "DC20" is not an ideal name for a brand, but perhaps the name can be changed into something that can rival "Dungeons & Dragons" as a descriptive title.

Brennan Lee Mulligan says DC20 is a masterpiece. Aabria Iyengar says she's never felt as much teamwork and ability to fight as a whole group. Every big name I've seen who has tried the game, has huge praise for it. Time for a real evolution forward. Time for D&D to diminish and fade into the background if it will not massively change (and obviously there won't be any significant change happening to D&D in the coming years, since they are in the middle of releasing their current flagship of the whole brand). I feel it in the water, I feel it in earth, I smell it in the air. One by one, the free lands of tabletopRPG will rise up against the oppression of D&D and cast off its ring of corruption.

This is a video I share with my students at the start of the year:

 

[MrTemplar]

Paraphrasing William Shatner on the famous old SNL skit..."It's just..a..GAME.."

Also, why should we assume another D20 based system is the superior option to replace 5E?

 

[Zuranthium]

@Zuranthium do you have any involvement with DC20?

Nope. Just been researching alternate systems and like this one the best. The main point is to get people looking outside of D&D, instead of simply accepting it. Put some real consideration into not giving that corporation more money. They don't care about us, and change won't happen if their pockets keep being lined. D&D was important to me as a kid, but IMO it hasn't evolved well enough the past 20 years, and I don't want to be forever tied down by a bad product.

Popularity largely influences what is available to play, similar to how McDonalds (an unhealthy product) is able to keep proliferating and harm people's health and the environment, since it exists on practically every street corner and people are misdirected away from how bad it really is, because of convenience and marketing. Could also use smoking as an example. It used to be everywhere, because it was seen as socially cool and "not that unhealthy", but thankfully that is no longer the case. Maybe games aren't as "important", but they still matter, and I want to see quality reign, not entities like World of Warcraft and McDonalds. The world deserves better.

Apparently there ways to influence your roll by how well you roleplay. Which has always made me cringe. I suuuuck at social skills and anything that makes me have to use them to get bonuses to my rolls makes my scrotum shrink.

Yeah. Definitely not for me.

There's nothing like that in DC20? Not any more than it already exists in D&D anyway, with the DM having ways to influence outcomes and perhaps being swayed by the roleplay of a scenario.

I went in with an open mind. But by time I got to the end of the Kickstarter video, I had lost track of which points did what and how often. I just didn’t see the point of Mana Points, Action Points, Rolled Above Points and other points in a system that supposedly played quickly.

Mana instead of spellslots is self explanatory. Action points are just what you can do during a round of combat instead of being railroaded into "main action, move, bonus action, reaction". It adds variety and depth, while removing the cheese of trying to exploit your "bonus action" as much as possible, and is easier to teach a new player the basics IMO (no more trying to figure out what all is a bonus action). Rolling high is simply extra damage for exceeding the target's AC by an increment of 5; makes perfect sense to me - if you only needed to roll a 9 to hit, and roll a 19, then logically your attack should do more.

There are no damage rolls, so the extra time and math it takes to do that is cut out, and it removes the frustration of rolling really low on damage. It never made sense in D&D that you can roll a "critical hit" but then roll almost no damage. In general I've never liked the massive variance of damage dice on spells. There are already saving throws and other modifiers that can alter damage. (btw, I haven't watched the kickstarter video, but would recommend instead watching a sample round of combat)

 

[Clint_L]

I suggest that your argument might gain more adherents if you didn't start by, in effect, telling people they are stupid sheep for liking what they like (or for not liking what you like).

I happen to think that D&D is popular for quite a few different reasons, but one of them is that it's a very good game. And I don't share your hyperbolic concerns about WotC.

Also, I'm just plain uninterested in another fantasy TTRPG. I'm already invested in D&D, and it provides more than enough of the fantasy genre, so when I play different TTRPGs I am looking for another experience altogether. I suspect quite a few players are in the same boat, whether it's with 5e, a different D&D edition, Level Up, Pathfinder, or what have you. So trying to convince me to abandon D&D and all my sunk costs to spend more money on another fantasy game that will basically scratch the same itch is not persuasive.

 

[Chaltab]

And then the constant and repeated, “infinite combinations” and “infinite customizations” made me quickly realize that they didn’t know what the word “infinite” actually meant.

To be fair D&D has that problem too... like Sigil being at the top of an infinitely-tall spire.

 

[GrimCo]

I judge products based on their own merit, not based on who made it. Will this new version be hit or miss, it's up to market to decide. If people like it and want to buy it and play it, good for them and good for company that made product that resonates with it's customer base.

As for DC20, read free rules on KS, and from what i read, it's not my cup of tea. It looks like good source to farm for house rules, but not like system i would like to play. These days, i'm into less rules, not more.

 

[Corinnguard]

The main point is to get people looking outside of D&D, instead of simply accepting it.

Weren't we already doing this? I don't know how far back people have been looking outside D&D, but somehow, I doubt that we have been simply accepting it. The number of forum threads on EN World where we have been critical of its' game mechanics and WoTC is evidence enough that we have not been simply accepting it. Unless you mean acceptance equating to how much money we have spent on getting its' various accessories. Then you might be onto something.