D&D (2024) D&D 2024 Rules Oddities (Kibbles’ Collected Complaints)

[tetrasodium]

I think there's a very real and important distinction to be drawn between:

A. Rules lawyering poorly-worded rules (weapon juggling).

and

B. Using very obvious tactics that would be immediately obvious to any half-way smart in-game character. Dragging a dude through spikes makes perfect sense in character just like casting Heat Metal on someone's armor.

A biiiig swathe of the added stuff that martials get in 5.5e is more forced movement and generally making mocement matter instead of focusing on trading blows face to face. And now we're not supposed to play with people who want to use those abilities in the most basic manner?

I agree with most everything you wrote except for the bold bit. There is a point where the rules are so far beyond just being "poorly-worded" that the rule itself is at fault for their abuse.

 

[Daztur]

I agree with most everything you wrote except for the bold bit. There is a point where the rules are so far beyond just being "poorly-worded" that the rule itself is at fault for their abuse.

Yeah, I just know at my table my players wouldn't think to do weapon juggling, it's just not the kind of thing they do so it would never have any impact on me in actual play. They WOULD however get confused about how many attacks they get while mixing WMs and feats.

Cheesegrater strategies and walking around while SGed are things I could see actually causing issues at my table.

 

[mellored]

Similarly Spirit Guardians now gets OPed if people use the deeply broken exploit of "walk around a bit so more critters are within range."

Not really. It's an slow AoE, and the cleric just walked into the middle of the creatures. Guess how long the concentration will last?

Even a monk dragging the cleric around is generally worse than the monk punching.

Unless you're against a horde of zombies.

 

[tetrasodium]

Yeah, I just know at my table my players wouldn't think to do weapon juggling, it's just not the kind of thing they do so it would never have any impact on me in actual play. They WOULD however get confused about how many attacks they get while mixing WMs and feats.

Cheesegrater strategies and walking around while SGed are things I could see actually causing issues at my table.

I run a lot☆ of AL at a local flgs in a touristy area. As a result see alllll the awful & see it regularly.

☆twice weekly

 

[Daztur]

Not really. It's an slow AoE, and the cleric just walked into the middle of the creatures. Guess how long the concentration will last?

Even a monk dragging the cleric around is generally worse than the monk punching.

Unless you're against a horde of zombies.

We had someone upthread saying that we shouldn't play with people who engage in strategies like walking around with SG cast to get more people within range. I was mostly replying to that (in my view) deeply flawed line of thinking.

As for SG power it seems that it'll be even more of a must-have cleric spell than in 5e which is bad but not utterly gamebreaking in the way that cheesegrater tactics now are as it's rare for PCs to fight enough enemies for this kind of mobile SG tactics to actually make THAT much of a difference. However, it does break certain encounters over its knee, which is a shame.

 

[Daztur]

I run a lot☆ of AL at a local flgs in a touristy area. As a result see alllll the awful & see it regularly.

☆twice weekly

Yeah things can be very different at different tables. I had someone on Reddit tell me that they'd NEVER seen ANYONE EVER use Command for anything but "flee" or "grovel" and my brain broke.

 

[mellored]

However, it does break certain encounters over its knee, which is a shame.

So does flying.
And Fog Cloud.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

I likely just missed it, but do we have a new version of spike growth that changes the wording? Because the 2014 version says "When a creature moves into...", not "When a creature enters...". Moving into is different than being moved, especially if we're so focused on following the absolute letter of the rules.

I don't think the wording is any different than the 2014 version. The 2014 version says (paraphrasing the relevant part) "when a creature moves within the area, it takes 2d4 damage for every 5 feet it travels". That sure sounds to me like forced movement is intended to count as moving within the area, especially when they word it as "for every 5 feet it travels" and not "moves". Using the word "travels" heavily implies that forced movement counts.

I would LOVE to be wrong here, but that's my interpretation from the 2014 wording and it doesn't seem like 2024 Spike Growth is different (it's the grappling portion that changed drastically)

 

[Oofta]

I don't think the wording is any different than the 2014 version. The 2014 version says (paraphrasing the relevant part) "when a creature moves within the area, it takes 2d4 damage for every 5 feet it travels". That sure sounds to me like forced movement is intended to count as moving within the area, especially when they word it as "for every 5 feet it travels" and not "moves". Using the word "travels" heavily implies that forced movement counts.

I would LOVE to be wrong here, but that's my interpretation from the 2014 wording and it doesn't seem like 2024 Spike Growth is different (it's the grappling portion that changed drastically)

The exact wording is "When a creature moves into or within the area... ". My point is that "moves into" is active tense, it's the creature doing the moving. It's different from "is moved into" which is passive tense, something being done to the creature.

In any case, this isn't anything new and I rule that the creature has to be the one doing the movement. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The exact wording is "When a creature moves into or within the area... ". My point is that "moves into" is active tense, it's the creature doing the moving. It's different from "is moved into" which is passive tense, something being done to the creature.

In any case, this isn't anything new and I rule that the creature has to be the one doing the movement. It may have been a bit less likely in 2014 version. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I think both takes are valid, but yours is certainly very slightly closer to the RAW so I can definitely see that take.