[D&D 3.5e] That New Pit Fiend

Completely agree with this, I love the idea! :D

The only problem I can see is that it leaves the monsters in third party books a little bit lacking. Maybe a fan based website can/will start up where combat tactics for these OGL creatures can be catalogued?
 

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I really don't like this holysilvered weapon thing for the DR. The game was item intensive enough, now the fighters will almost need 3-4 primary weapons just to do their jobs.
 

Darkness said:
:eek:
With pit fiends having these stats, deities' ability scores almost pale by comparison unless they are of a very high level and/or divine rank.

They'll be revising the deities' stats too ! :D

Sheesh, Darkness, pay attention ! ;)
 

The more I see things like this and other revision details I know that I'm off the new material wagon. I've spent too much on 3rd party stuff to have to rework that to fit the new rules when I want to use it. This is an early judgement and will be revised when I can see the books, but I'm probably left behind again. I'm not buying new core books and don't feel like having to modify all my current stuff to fit the new rules, have to redo encounters in modules to factor in the less power of 3e MM stuff, etc. I'll do that on five buck ESD's of classic 1e mods but not a 15 bucks 3e mod.
 

I really don't like this holysilvered weapon thing for the DR. The game was item intensive enough, now the fighters will almost need 3-4 primary weapons just to do their jobs.

Maybe, maybe not. I think that there will be a lot of spells that can be cast upon weapons that give them the properties that they need to overcome the DR...

Also, The DR has been lowered as well DR 15 seems to be the highest that it now goes.
 

Pit Fiend

This, my friends, is crunchy bits of goodness. They know full well that this little bad boy will sell them books.

To all the posters that don't like the changes, but haven't ever used a pit fiend: Please don't complain. I respect your right to an opinion, but your opinions don't hold as much weight in my eyes as those of posters who have run such games. I'm not singling out anyone's post, merely making a general comment about opinions on high-level play.

The high level monsters in the Monster Manual were very poorly designed in my opinion, with the exception being Dragons. It was abundantly obvious they weren't playtested well. As a result, I'm confident we'll see these types of changes to many of the higher CR creatures, but very few changes to anything CR 10 and below (other than the mechanics previously addressed).

One thing still missing, that I'm hoping will be available somewhere on the "page" dedicated to each monster are the stat blocks that include information on the "buffed" equivalent for the creature, such as with the Unholy Aura and other spell-like abilities that are necessary to compete with heavily buffed high level PC's.

Additions of different types of AC's and common types of attacks (standard, full, grapple) to the stat block are very nice additions. Thank you!

Why were these changes needed? Where did the numbers come from? Playtesting. I used pit fiends and other fiends, in my games and the numbers on this guy (hit points, AC, and SR) are very close to what they've developed. Close enough that I can say confidently they were not arbitrarily "pulled from the air". On the contrary, these are the appropriate levels required to truly challenge a 15th or 16th level party. Anything less is a joke, and will get summarily steam-rolled by the amazing offensive firepower of a well equipped high level party.

As it regards the lowering of some of the resistances. Bravo! The wizards in my campaign were often highly frustrated by the combination of "high saves, high SR, and high energy resistance". As a result they turned to save/die or save/hold spells to forego the energy resistance piece. By lowering these to more reasonable numbers, a well placed Cone of Cold or Chain Lightning may be a worthy competitor to Disintegrate or Hold Monster.

On the thought of all the existing "3rd Party Material" being uncompatible. Hold on a second! Two ways to look at this. The character classes haven't changed significantly, so you can still use all the encounter, etc, as they've drawn them up. No real significant changes (maybe some with spells). Who cares if the Skeleton has DR 5/Blunt or DR 5/+1? Run it! It will work fine. They're going to get blasted by your cleric anyway! I see this as completely the opposite. Here's a great opportunity for everyone who's produced something to date to send out an "update" which could be free, or...

could be a nice little unexpected revenue boost for not a ton of a additional work. Just a different perspective on what many have touched on.

IE, see Creature Collection "revised"...)

Monstrous multi-classing. I love it. It works much better than ECL's. Now, let's see if they figure out that the next challenge is how do you effectively spread out all of those abilities to ensure that someone who takes one or two levels of outsiders gets "good" abilities, but not significantly better abilities than someone taking two levels of fighter or a prestige class!

Can't wait for more 3.5 goodness. I'm very pleased with the new Pit Fiend, top to bottom.
 

To all the posters that don't like the changes, but haven't ever used a pit fiend: Please don't complain. I respect your right to an opinion, but your opinions don't hold as much weight in my eyes as those of posters who have run such games. I'm not singling out anyone's post, merely making a general comment about opinions on high-level play.

You may not be singling anyone out by name, but I'm the only one who's mentioned having never used pit fiends. So I guess that means you are talking to me.

Let me restate/rephrase my position. I am not focused on just the pit fiend as a specific creature. I am focused on the example they've presented to showcase how they are "revising" things. The pit fiend just happens to be the example they gave. And as an example, I can see they have not just revised the listing, they have changed the creature.

If they had listed an ogre as the example, I would be shocked and dismayed to see 5 HD, +2 natural armor increase, and +12 to ability scores. That would be a serious change, not an update.

Now, if the pit fiend truly is an example of what they're doing to the monster stats, my above ogre changes fits right in. "It's about time the ogre was truly a powerful monster."

Notice I have not complained about fixing the feats to match the base rules [every three levels]. The pit fiend listed as the example now works "correctly". And following that example, ogres should get another feat also for being 4HD. But now, following the given example, the designers may very well make a 5HD ogre. They've set the precedent for whimsical changes.

I'm very pleased with the new Pit Fiend, top to bottom.

And it is indeed a "new" pit fiend. Will all the other creatures be similarly "new" instead of updated to match the revised rules?

Quasqueton
 

The more sweeping the changes are, the better the conversion notes in the DMG better be. Of course, I'm assuming such notes will exist. I'm still going to reserve judgment on 3.5 until I can see it for myself. However, if my collection of 3rd party stuff suddenly becomes much more difficult to use, I will not at all be happy.
 

Hi Eridanis! :)

Eridanis said:
And U_K, I too am drooling to find out about the solar. Always one of my favorites from the 1st edition MM2, up there with the phoenix. :)

I just hope they switched the Planetar's Sword back to its 1st Ed. origins.

None of this +3 Greatsword nonsense; what happened to its +4 Bastard Sword of Sharpness and Wounding!?
 

Re: Pit Fiend

Hi there ashockney! :)

I know a few people have touched on this before...

ashockney said:
Why were these changes needed? Where did the numbers come from? Playtesting. I used pit fiends and other fiends, in my games and the numbers on this guy (hit points, AC, and SR) are very close to what they've developed. Close enough that I can say confidently they were not arbitrarily "pulled from the air". On the contrary, these are the appropriate levels required to truly challenge a 15th or 16th level party. Anything less is a joke, and will get summarily steam-rolled by the amazing offensive firepower of a well equipped high level party.

Are you suggesting the aforementioned revised Pit Fiend represents a moderate* challenge for a party of 16th-level characters!?

*will result in a loss of 20% of the parties resources?

Personally it appears a lot closer to a 50/50 chance encounter for such a party!
 

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